Confused about Feeding

As I read your issue, you have to not discard everything! You need to discard, but not all of it. Or feed the 1/4 cup more than exactly 1/2 cup total, extract the half cup, and start refeeding the remainder. None of the starter directions I've followed have left me with no remainder at all. They're all a little different, but they all leave you with something to keep feeding. I can find some examples and send them if it is helpful.

Christine

I am a home baker and don't work with massive amounts of product at a time. With this said when activating the starter after taking it out of the refrigerator I just eye ball what ever makes a thick pancake type batter.  If I am making a triple batch of bread (2.7 Kg) I mix a bunch of starter,  If I am just making a couple of batches of pancakes I make less.  After it has become very active I always put a cup or two back in the crock and in the refrigerator.  I do this promptly as if I don't I forget and I loose my starter.   If I am in an active baking period I will work out of the bowl with the leftovers for a while.  I just keep repeating the activation step in the same bowl until I am through with my manic baking period.  If I have some left at the end of this period I just toss it out, but for no other reason than I am done.  I believe sourdough is very forgiving and the most important thing you can do is not get in a hurry.  Every time I rush is when I have problems.  RELAX!  Take your time and as long as you have saved some starter for next time things will work out. Over time you will get a feel for what the dough feels like and adjust on the fly during the baking process. 

If you are intent on maintaining a 100% hydration starter, just about the most flexible starter level of hydration, you'll need to change some of those methods. Hydration level is the ratio of water content to flour by weight- grams or ounces, not volume- tablespoons and cups.

In order to maintain a 100% starter, take a set weight of your starter, 25 grams for instance, and mix it with 50 grams of water and 50 grams of flour. Let it mature, doubling in volume in 8 hours or less when at 70F and discard 100 grams, saving 25g and once again adding 50g of water and 50g of flour. If that 100g of discard was good and bubbly duringthe maturation process of its fourth refreshment, you can spread thin stripes on parchment paper to let it dry out. That may take up to three days. When dry, you can break up the starter into small pieces and put them in a sealable container, such as a food jar or zipper freezer bag. It's important that the container be reasonably air tight. My dried starter is kept in a zipper bag in the freezer of my fridge. Making a label with the date and type of starter- whole wheat, rye, or white flour, is a good thing.

After about three or four refreshments, you should have an active, flavorful starter that you can either put in your fridge if you don't bake on a daily basis or keep on a counter if you do bake daily. It will be reasonably close to 100% hydration if you've followed my suggested feeding schedule. The starter that is kept in a fridge can be fed once a week or even as infrequently as every two weeks and stiil be capable of raising a loaf after one or two refreshments. I can't overstress the NECESSITY of using a good scale for this purpose. You'll get a consistent level of quality by feeding your starter by weight rather than volume. That same scale will help you get better, more consistent results in your baking as well.

When you need to have a specific quantity of starter for a loaf, you can take a portion of your starter and build up to that required quantity in a day or two. Take that portion from your starter culture and feed it on a 1 part starter, 2 parts water, 2 parts flour basis. Doing the build in one step can be done but some bakers prefer a two or even a three step build on that ratio to reach the required quantity. The three step build is said to have a stronger flavor and more active yeast. If you want to do the math, you can try the three different strategies and see if they work for you.

 Postal Grunt,

Do you have success with your starter adding 200% water and 200% flour?  Is the starter strong or mild in flavour?  I usually see recipes where they recommend either 50% or 100% feedings.  Meaning if you start with 100g starter you'd add 50g water and 50g flour -OR- you'd add 100g water and 100g flour.

If you have a LOT of starter you can add less flour and water, but you'd need to feed the starter more often because the yeast would consume the lesser amount of flour more quickly.  I currently have about 1000g of starter and am feeding 2x daily with 150g flour and 150g water and find that I get pretty flavourful bread as a result.

Trisha,

Feeding by weight, using even amounts you get a 166% hydration starter, whereas if you feed using even amounts by volume you get a 100% hydration starter.  This will affect your recipes.  A more water filled starter will require less water/liquid in the recipe, whereas a less water filled starter will require more water/liquid in the recipe.  After you get into it a while you'd get a feel as to what the dough should look and feel like and you'll know to add more water or more flour.

-John

OK, you can have 200% water and 200% flour in the same feeding. Mathematically, it can't work that way for hydration because hydration is the ratio of water to flour by weight, not volume. However, if you have a 50g seed, yes you can add 100g of water and 100g of flour. That's no problem and you can do that every time. A 1:2:2 refreshment will take a little longer than an equal parts refreshment (1:1:1) but it works fine and many find it more convienent because it allows for a more convienent time frame in their plans.

A 50g starter:50g water:50g flour refreshment is a 100% hydration starter at maturity. It can double in less than 8 hours and many times in less than 4 hours depending on the vigor of the seed and room temperature. The 1:2:2 refreshment is still a 100% hydration because the weight of the water is equal to the weight of the flour.  Yesterday, I began a new build using the leftovers of a white flour (unbleached all purpose) 100% starter with 50g of water and 50g of unbleached AP. That's still a 100% hydration level regardless of the fact that there were probably only 5g of starter left for seed. It will probably take at least 20 hours at 60F (it's in the cellar of my home) to double but that's fine. I'm not in a hurry to bake and in this case, time is my friend because I can reasonably expect to get a more flavorful result. Time can be used as your friend to flavor because it is a factor in the level of bacteria in your starter that affect flavor. Time will also affect the gluten development in your dough so a little bit of research into this aspect will help your results.

A 50% hydration level, 1 part water to 2 parts flour, for a starter is a very "stiff" starter. It's very similar to an Italian biga. It will work just fine but you still will have to know your baker's percentages to get results similar to a recipe. You can just do it by intuition but without experience, your results may not be what you can expect by following the recipe or formula more closely. An aspect of sourdough starters that I overlooked when starting bread baking was that I don't need to keep a large amount of starter, I keep less than 200g these days. As long as I plan ahead, I can take a 100% hydration starter to build a 75% starter in a few refreshments. I can change a white flour starter to build a whole wheat starter in a few refreshments. A professional will keep different starters because of the daily demands of his or her business. As a home baker, I can keep one. That may seem to quash spontaneity but my reality is that I don't bake daily and I'm still responsible enough to plan ahead.

I disagree with John's explanations about hydrations levels by volume and weight. My readings are such that they are the opposite of what John describes. I base my statement of opposition on my readings from Hamelman's "Bread" and the many threads archived over at "The Fresh Loaf" site. There are some posters here that also post at "The Fresh Loaf". I do agree that a looser starter-one with more water than flour- means you will need less water added to the dough. We probably agree that once the dough is mixed that we are aiming for around 65% hydration in a pan loaf and higher per centages in a baguette and ciabatta.

Wow, reading posts by so many great bakers always floors me at how much of this is chemistry!  It's crazy.

Ok - I'm going to try to make my reply simple.  First thing: Get a scale.  At this point I ONLY measure with weight.  I agree it's the best way to go.

I have my starter in a mason jar in the fridge.  When I refresh I pull it out, let it warm up for an hour or two and then tip the jar and pour out most of the starter.  A bunch of starter clings to the inside of jar, I keep that.  It's usually a fairly thin layer.  Then depending on the bread recipe I'm going for (and how much starter I need) I generally do around 30g Rye Flour, 70g White Flour and 100g Water. 

The more often you refresh your starter the stronger it gets and the healthier it is.  when you empty most of it out and feed it around 100g Flour, 100g water it eats through all of that (for me) in about 12 hours.  By emptying out most of your starter, you are making the starter you keep stronger.

Good luck!!

    Alie

I have been baking with sourdough for almost 2 years now... If you are just starting a starter the methods are different than once your starter is established.  If I read your question right you are wondering when you will start feeding your starter to make enough starter to follow a recipe to make bread.  So I am going to send you to the Beginners blog for some great info from this forum.  Please take the time to read all the info for a new sourdough baker found there.

http://sourdough.com/beginners-guide 

My first starter took more than a week to get going and is still going strong.  Be patient and you will be rewarded with great sourdough bread. 

Also, just to confirm what was said before, when a recipe is refers to 100% starter.  It is the percentage of water to flour ie. the hydration of the Flour by weight, so yes a scale is the best method to achieve this.  A 200% hydration starter would be 200g of water to 100g of flour, not 200g of each water and flour... that would net you 200g of 100% hydrated flour.  Once your starter is going good (after a week to 10days) follow the instructions for refreshing your starter or building up an active starter for a recipe, I hope this helps. 

Please look at the beginners guide for the best instructions to follow, hopefully this will help with the confusion. 

Most of us don't discard much starter once we have a good one established.  We bake with it or make pancakes or pizza or other great stuff.  But it is very important at the beginning to follow a tight schedule and be patient, because about the time you think you have failed, you will succeed.  It is also a good idea to discard the extra starter for the first week.  Check out Dom's starter instructions here...

http://sourdough.com/blog/sourdom/beginners-blog-starter-scratch

And check out Dom's starter experiment blog... 

Here is a  little bread porn to keep you going:) 

A couple of hints that will work, till you get a better scale.  First hint - is that 1/4 cup of water weighs approximately 60g (1 cup ~238g),  and  secondly  - 1/2 cup flour is fairly close to 60g (avg 1 cup flour properly measured ~125 to 130g).  So keeping that ratio will get you close to 100%.  Also If your starter is too thin at first it is very hard to detect activity, so stay close to 100% hydration to start with.   For the best results, as the others have told you, buy a good digital scale that will show weights in grams you will wonder why you never bought one before.

In a few more days ... When your starter is ready!  Give this topic a read for some recipe inspiration. 

http://sourdough.com/forum/first-loaf-suggestions-if-you-please

Terri