hello all,
just getting started with sourdough and have a 6 day old starter. I'm at the stage of a strong paint odor (like oil based paint) and I'm hoping I'm on the right track, don't really want to toss the vermonster out, I think I've become attached to it.
using ka ap, started with just water (sweet well water) and flour. was feeding a ratio of about half starter and half fresh daily for first 3 or 4 days, mixing by feel to get a relatively stiff mix, and kept at a pretty steady temp of about 70-72F.
have been getting some bubbling (mostly in the risen part of the starter, not all the way through) and a rise of about 50% somewhere around 6 hrs after feeding the last 2 days, so increased feeding to 2x daily. still looking for a doubling in mass but I expect to see it in another couple days, the bubbles and rise are increasing at a steady rate.
I'm just concerned about the smell. I did do a little test the last feeding. 1 starter, 2 flour, water to make a loose dough, and it's rising, almost doubled in 2 hrs (temp about 70F), and smell turned into a super rich buttermilk smell (oh what a difference), but it is very slowly turning back to oil paint again.
does it sound like I'm getting there?
and I do thank those who reply!!
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What kind of flour do you feed your vermonster? I’ve noticed that my starter culture has a different smell depending on what I feed it. Organic white flour gives it a weaker "alcohol and fresh paint" smell, where whole wheat flour gives it a stronger smell. Rye flour gives a very complex, almost impossible to describe, smell.
I’m also experimenting with gluten-free flours. So far, buckwheat and sorghum give some very good results, but my starter almost died on a rice+tapioca mix. Go figure. Sorghum is peculiar. The mixe looks like wet sand, but it manages to rise a lot despite the obvious lack of structure in the mix.
phaz,
It sounds like you are doing fine!
I use KA AP (unbleached) flour on my starter and have for the last 2.5 years. It works great! Newer starter can have a stronger smell as it attempts to balance out. Typically its a sign that it wants to be fed.
You didn't mention if your were feeding by weight or volume. I would suggest feeding by weight.
When kept on the counter, I feed my starter at 1 part starter to 1 part flour and 1 part water. In other words, I feed 100g of starter with 100g flour and 100g of water. for a total of 300g. This does mean that I discard 200g of starter at every feeding but the result is a healthy starter that more than doubles between feedings. I feed ever 12 hours.
Feeding by weight and at this ratio produces what is typically called 100% hydration starter, meaning the the weight of water added is 100% of the weight of the flour added.
If you want to keep from having to discard so much you could reduce all of the amounts to 50g.
The main thing is to be consistent on feedings
Phaz,
I read with great interest at what you and other noobs are doing. I am just starting out along the sour dough road and I'm new to the community. Your experiences are what I crave at the moment as I too will have a behemoth called a starter and I find the odour descriptions comforting.Keep posting so I know I'm doing OK as well. Cheers.
The subtle buttermilk smell (or "sweet butter" as I called it the first time) is present in all my "white flour" starters and sponges. It seems to be a good sign. It can vary from day to day; sometimes the green apple smell is dominant, sometimes it’s the fresh paint aroma (which I don’t like much in the morning), sometimes buttermilk. Take your time, feed it well, and let your started stabilize. It is also a good idea to transfer it to another jar from time to time, this will allow you to clean up the jar and get rid of the dried up stains in the upper part of the jar.
I am in southeastern Quebec, quite close to Vermont actually! I think I’ll try the King Arthur flour someday. It looks pretty good.
By the way I’ve transferred my starter culture to a plastic wide-mouth Ball jar ("Freezer Jar" with a green or purple cap) and it is VERY convenient. Easier to stir, easier to clean than the glass jar.
Hi Phaz,
Welcome from another newbie, you can read my post " Starter help needed" there were some great replies there.
From my recent experience with getting my starter going...It took till day 7 for my starter to become active and mousse like in consistency (so needed patience in the waiting)...the smells also varied alot during that time....and I also found feeding it more often helped make it active quicker.Initially I was only feeding once a day then uped it to twice a day, due to recommendations on here.
Good luck and let us know how you go.
XK
Apologies for the late reply...I haven;t been on here in the last few days...great news that your starter has become active...and I can relate to the wait being excrutiating...I felt the same way...once it becomes active...its easier to understand what everyone is on about when they say " you'll know when its active" and that is true. I meant to tell you that mine prefered a less wet mix too...so thicker than pancake batter...but I see you discovered that also.
With my starter I dont measure anything...I found I had more luck when I went by feel...so I emptied half my culture out and then added about the same amount of flour in ...so my level returned to about where it was...then i added my h2o...to only get that consistency I just mentioned...and that was it.
Something else that might come in handy for you...I ran out of my feeding flour so put my starters in the fridge....and not really knowing what to do when I wanted to make bread and not having heaps of time to read on here...I just bought it out of the fridge and let it return to room temp...even before the temp had risen it started bubbling and fuffing up...I was really surprised...I thought I might have the same kind of dramas I had to get it going in the first place...but no...it got straight to it...and now I'm off to make a recommended beginners loaf...Happy Baking :)
XK
I make bread 2 or even 3 times a week. The day I make bread, I feed my starter in the morning, then prepare the sponge 5-6 hours later. So it’s only 5-6 hours between the two operations, the starter is super active at this point, and it works just fine. I feed the starter in the morning and evening (12 hours in-between); you can skip feeding once, it won’t kill the beast. Just make sure you give it plenty of food and dump some volume prior to feeding. If you want to see if your starter still has some food left, even after it starts deflating, stir it to make all bubbles escape, then wait 1-2 hours and see if new bubbles form. You don’t want a starving starter.
The starter’s metabolism is heavily influenced by the room temperature and by the hydration level; high temperatures and high hydration accelerate the starter, and you have to feed it more often. If you see a "hooch" forming, that is, brownish liquid on the top, it means you are not feeding it often enough. (Sourdough experts: correct me if I’m wrong).
You can also spend some time taking notes hourly and drawing a chart. You’ll see how your starter rises, peaks and deflates. Next thing is to make sure you keep a consistent hydration level. At first I was keeping mine at 125% hydration because it was easier to stir, but it made dough calculations more complex. Now I’ve reduced hydration to 100% (equal weight of flour and water), it’s stickier but still easy to manage. Plus, the bubbles don’t escape as easily so it’s easier to "see" the starter rise after you feed it.
Hi Phaz,
i'm a newbie too, and I also use ka flour. I live in Maine, a fellow new englander. I found I liked my starter better after I started adding about 15 - 20% rye flour. I can't buy ka rye locally, so I use arrowhead farms organic rye. I bake with a mix of white whole wheat and bread flour usually, so that's what I use for the rest of the starter food. While it was developing I kept it on the kitchen counter in a pint ball jar. Every 12 hours I discarded all but 50 grams, added 50 grams water and 50 grams flour. Now I keep it in the fridge in a quart ball jar with a plastic one piece cap loosely on top. I use 100 grams starter, water, flour as a mix now that I'm not wasting any of it. I always leaveit out long enough to get it bubbling well throughout, and starting to grow again before i put it back in the fridge. The smell is stronger the longer you wait between feedings for sure. Keeping it in the fridge means a little more planning to make bread is all. I start about 12-24 hours earlier and feed the starter once or twice as the beginning of my recipe to liven it up. Using 100 % hydration makes it real easy to work into any recipe at all I find.
great site here btw! Lots of soudough sites, but this is the only one I signed up for so far. Good luck to you!
mainah
I'm excited for you. I hope it taste great!
PICTURES!
Keep working at it. This is my first attempt at sourdough too and I have no doubt that I will have plenty of disasters. I should be baking in a few days. The help on this website is fantastic and spurs you on to do well and not to give up. I have been home baking since 1978 and I haven't bought any bread in that time. I mainly bake granary (malted grain) bread and white bread when my son is home. I make pretty decent bread now but I am really precise with my measurements and use digital scales all the time to weigh the ingredients and the water. I always use fresh yeast and, for practical reasons, I make large loaves (4 at a time) and freeze what we don't eat.
Salt will for sure make a difference in flavor! I've forgot it myself a time or two.
Keep at it!
My loaves taste best the next day. The flavor just seems to improve in that time period.
let's see if I can figure how top upload a picture, and looks like I can only upload to a new post, so I will create 1. c the new post for picture, and I will check both for comments and more help. I think I still could use a bit!