The liquid at the top of your starter is completly normal. Don't worry. I am new to this site but, not to sourdough. Almost every sourdough has it's own quirks and, flavors. I have truly sour sourdough and the one I like best is a milder version.
When I get ready to make something with my sourdough I will take it out of the fridge the night before and, pour my starter into a warmed bowl with straight hot tap water (assuming it's not over 115)*. I save aprox. 1 cup of starter to store and add it to 1 cup hot water. I mix it until it is the same consistancy throughout. Then I add a cup of white flour mixing it a little at a time until it is blended well. I cover the bowl with a light dishcloth and let it sit on the counter all night. Some important things to remember. NEVER use metal spoons/bowls. Metal will kill the natural yeasts!!! Always store 1 cup of starter before bakeing.
Another thing I have learned, Let your breads rise twice as long as you think it needs. I have some great recipies that I will share too.
Whilst a well aerated active starter will float on water it is not necessarily the only criterion that you should consider and the fact that it doesn't does not necessarily mean that it is not active.
Does the volume in the container increase in the hours after feeding? If so, how much does it increase? When you dip a spoon in, is the mixture full of bubbles and have a mousse like texture?
From what you say, you do not have a layer of 'hooch' forming. If you do it will be clearly visible and I don't think you would get it in the sort of time frames that you are mentioning unless you are working at a very high hydration and then it would be just water and flour separation going on. When you say 50/50 flour and water, is that by weight or by volume? Is the starter dough-like or batter-like?
Have a read of SourDom's beginners blogs on this site, he has some very good info on establishing and maintaining a home-made culture. Very reliable and a lot cheaper than buying them from all and sundry.
As an aside, I use metal spoons and metal bowls for making my bread and haven't killed anything yet. Keep my starter in glass though.
I answered my own question by watching the rise and fall of the starter's volume. I never tried this with the Carl's Oregon Trail starter because it was so anemic, the level never seemed to change.
I'm feeding 50/50 by weight. Since I started with ~50 grams, I had been doubling the weight with each feeding to get sufficient volume to use in a recipe. I had fed it two evenings ago, then started monitoring changes to its volume yesterday morning. It continued to expand until about the 14th hour after feeding, stabilized for four hours, and began to fall.
I tried the 'float' test during that four-hour static period and the starter still sank, but only just. And when I jiggled the bowl, it sort of danced like a sea fan in the surf. When I'd tested it before it was obviously denser and didn't much move when jiggled.
This is much, much more aggressive that the Carl's starter ever was (so many people have had excellent results with the Carl's I have to believe my problem was operator error, maybe something in the way I was reviving it, which is why I bought a 'live' starter this time). Based on this timing I think what happened that prompted me to make the OP was that I tested it in the evening before it had hit the 14-hour peak, and when I awoke in the morning, it already was on the down-side of 18 hours. Since the Carl's had been the only starter I had any experience with, I would never have believed a starter could be so 'hungry' as to go past peak in less than 24 hours. So I am surprised (but pleased) because that gives me hope I'll have better results with it.
And thank you, too, for cluing me in on SourDom's tutorials. That will take some time to wade through. IIRC, a link from SourDom led me to Bill44's blog and I eventually ended up at a 'simple' recipe from someone called 'jackal10,' which I built last night and is resting in the 'fridge, to be baked this afternoon. I'll post back to tell you how it turns out.
Dunno why that last post says 'anonymous,' I thought I was "logged in" when I made it.
The loaf from jackal10's recipe didn't turn out well but wasn't a complete failure, and in hindsight, I know I made some errors. I didn't lengthen the fermentation times enough to compensate for my cooler kitchen, and the prescribed baking time was a bit too long for my loaf (either that or my oven was too hot). So the crumb was closed (like white bread closed) and very dense, the crust was too hard (my bread knife couldn't even scratch it), and there wasn't much flavor. Almost every attempt I made with the Carl's Oregon Trail starter, it tasted varying degrees of unpleasant, so I'm at least that much ahead with the Breadtopia starter. The good news is the crust was satisfyingly thick, and I think only the over-baking made it too hard (and I might have found a source for natural fiber body armor), plus I figure the over-baking further robbed it of flavor, so I think that recipe merits further investigation. I studied enough while I was toiling with the Carl's that I have a fair idea of where my mistakes in this case lay, and how to fix them. So while I never was happy with any of the bread I made with the Carl's, I think I did learn a lot about bread-making from the experience, Hopefully a change of starter will prove that out.
For a very good basic recipe I find it hard to go past the Pane francesa that SourDom gives in his blog (choose your version but the all sourdough one is fine). Also have a look at this blog of mine for an idea of how I work the dough and bake the loaf using just that recipe.
Thank you again, Farinam, I will give that pane francesca a try. It does look like something I'd enjoy eating.
My second attempt with jackal10's recipe showed a slightly more open crumb and genuine soudough flavor, so at least I'm moving in the right direction. But I'm still rushing it a bit and should be letting it ferment longer.
I made a batch of rye starter to dehydrate for long-term storage in case disaster strikes my 'regular' starter. In the generations of feedings to 'convert' it from white to rye, it gained enough volume that after I'd subtracted as much as I wanted for the dehydration, there still was quite a bit of starter left. So I used it in a very simple recipe, just 3C bread flour, 1.5C starter, salt and water, and it made probably the best looking boule I've ever baked. It had a good rise, and nice oven spring, too. And best of all, it's quite good, even though I'm not usually a fan of rye breads (unless it has pastrami piled on it).
I'm stoked, to say the least, that the Breadtopia starter is showing so much promise. I'd begun to think I was jinxed (now that I've said it out loud, watch that everything else I ever bake with it turns out looking like matzohs).
Replies
Hi Fave,
The liquid at the top of your starter is completly normal. Don't worry. I am new to this site but, not to sourdough. Almost every sourdough has it's own quirks and, flavors. I have truly sour sourdough and the one I like best is a milder version.
When I get ready to make something with my sourdough I will take it out of the fridge the night before and, pour my starter into a warmed bowl with straight hot tap water (assuming it's not over 115)*. I save aprox. 1 cup of starter to store and add it to 1 cup hot water. I mix it until it is the same consistancy throughout. Then I add a cup of white flour mixing it a little at a time until it is blended well. I cover the bowl with a light dishcloth and let it sit on the counter all night. Some important things to remember. NEVER use metal spoons/bowls. Metal will kill the natural yeasts!!! Always store 1 cup of starter before bakeing.
Another thing I have learned, Let your breads rise twice as long as you think it needs. I have some great recipies that I will share too.
Armen
Hello Barnicle Bill,
Whilst a well aerated active starter will float on water it is not necessarily the only criterion that you should consider and the fact that it doesn't does not necessarily mean that it is not active.
Does the volume in the container increase in the hours after feeding? If so, how much does it increase? When you dip a spoon in, is the mixture full of bubbles and have a mousse like texture?
From what you say, you do not have a layer of 'hooch' forming. If you do it will be clearly visible and I don't think you would get it in the sort of time frames that you are mentioning unless you are working at a very high hydration and then it would be just water and flour separation going on. When you say 50/50 flour and water, is that by weight or by volume? Is the starter dough-like or batter-like?
Have a read of SourDom's beginners blogs on this site, he has some very good info on establishing and maintaining a home-made culture. Very reliable and a lot cheaper than buying them from all and sundry.
As an aside, I use metal spoons and metal bowls for making my bread and haven't killed anything yet. Keep my starter in glass though.
Good luck with your projects.
Farinam
Thank you for the advice, Farinam.
I answered my own question by watching the rise and fall of the starter's volume. I never tried this with the Carl's Oregon Trail starter because it was so anemic, the level never seemed to change.
I'm feeding 50/50 by weight. Since I started with ~50 grams, I had been doubling the weight with each feeding to get sufficient volume to use in a recipe. I had fed it two evenings ago, then started monitoring changes to its volume yesterday morning. It continued to expand until about the 14th hour after feeding, stabilized for four hours, and began to fall.
I tried the 'float' test during that four-hour static period and the starter still sank, but only just. And when I jiggled the bowl, it sort of danced like a sea fan in the surf. When I'd tested it before it was obviously denser and didn't much move when jiggled.
This is much, much more aggressive that the Carl's starter ever was (so many people have had excellent results with the Carl's I have to believe my problem was operator error, maybe something in the way I was reviving it, which is why I bought a 'live' starter this time). Based on this timing I think what happened that prompted me to make the OP was that I tested it in the evening before it had hit the 14-hour peak, and when I awoke in the morning, it already was on the down-side of 18 hours. Since the Carl's had been the only starter I had any experience with, I would never have believed a starter could be so 'hungry' as to go past peak in less than 24 hours. So I am surprised (but pleased) because that gives me hope I'll have better results with it.
And thank you, too, for cluing me in on SourDom's tutorials. That will take some time to wade through. IIRC, a link from SourDom led me to Bill44's blog and I eventually ended up at a 'simple' recipe from someone called 'jackal10,' which I built last night and is resting in the 'fridge, to be baked this afternoon. I'll post back to tell you how it turns out.
Dunno why that last post says 'anonymous,' I thought I was "logged in" when I made it.
The loaf from jackal10's recipe didn't turn out well but wasn't a complete failure, and in hindsight, I know I made some errors. I didn't lengthen the fermentation times enough to compensate for my cooler kitchen, and the prescribed baking time was a bit too long for my loaf (either that or my oven was too hot). So the crumb was closed (like white bread closed) and very dense, the crust was too hard (my bread knife couldn't even scratch it), and there wasn't much flavor. Almost every attempt I made with the Carl's Oregon Trail starter, it tasted varying degrees of unpleasant, so I'm at least that much ahead with the Breadtopia starter. The good news is the crust was satisfyingly thick, and I think only the over-baking made it too hard (and I might have found a source for natural fiber body armor), plus I figure the over-baking further robbed it of flavor, so I think that recipe merits further investigation. I studied enough while I was toiling with the Carl's that I have a fair idea of where my mistakes in this case lay, and how to fix them. So while I never was happy with any of the bread I made with the Carl's, I think I did learn a lot about bread-making from the experience, Hopefully a change of starter will prove that out.
Hello Bill,
For a very good basic recipe I find it hard to go past the Pane francesa that SourDom gives in his blog (choose your version but the all sourdough one is fine). Also have a look at this blog of mine for an idea of how I work the dough and bake the loaf using just that recipe.
http://sourdough.com/blog/one-way-make-loaf-bread
Good luck with your projects.
Farinam
Thank you again, Farinam, I will give that pane francesca a try. It does look like something I'd enjoy eating.
My second attempt with jackal10's recipe showed a slightly more open crumb and genuine soudough flavor, so at least I'm moving in the right direction. But I'm still rushing it a bit and should be letting it ferment longer.
I made a batch of rye starter to dehydrate for long-term storage in case disaster strikes my 'regular' starter. In the generations of feedings to 'convert' it from white to rye, it gained enough volume that after I'd subtracted as much as I wanted for the dehydration, there still was quite a bit of starter left. So I used it in a very simple recipe, just 3C bread flour, 1.5C starter, salt and water, and it made probably the best looking boule I've ever baked. It had a good rise, and nice oven spring, too. And best of all, it's quite good, even though I'm not usually a fan of rye breads (unless it has pastrami piled on it).
I'm stoked, to say the least, that the Breadtopia starter is showing so much promise. I'd begun to think I was jinxed (now that I've said it out loud, watch that everything else I ever bake with it turns out looking like matzohs).
Thanks for sharing the recipe. I will have a try tonight and see whether I can be successful.