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Classic Auvergne Dark Rye

LeadDog's picture
This is going to be a bread based on the formula from "Local Breads".  The description of the bread sounds wonderful but the formula is off.  The hydration of the bread in the book is at 53% and the dough he describes is a very wet dough.  Here is a picture of my 100% hydration Rye starter ready for action.

Rye Starter

The book says to use your wheat starter and build the rye starter from that.  I haven't done many rye breads but the starter is off to a good beginning so I'm excited.

The next step is to mix all the water, starter, and rye flour together.  The water is 115°F and this is to make a thick batter.  The rye flour is fresh ground of course and the hydration for this mix is 120% more or less.  Here is a picture of the mix.

first mix

This is to set covered for an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes.  Then the bread flour will be added in.

The bread flour was added and mixed until I had a sticky slack dough.  Here is a picture of what I got and it is very sticky.

second mix

The dough is to ferment an hour to an hour and 15 minutes.  Then the loaf is to be formed.  This is where it is going to get interesting.

Look what just popped out of the oven.  I'm really am surprised at how it turned out.  There is no picture of this bread in the book.  Here is the description from the book "The surface, unscored, becomes covered with cracks and bubbles as it bakes, so the finished bread resembles the volcanic landscape of the region."

Auvergne Dark Rye 

I'm planning on cutting it tomorrow at work so the crumb shot will have to wait.  I'll do a detailed write up with a link to it if this turns out to be any good.
Update:  Here is the link to my write up.


Millciti's picture
Millciti 2009 August 3

Now is this bread any relation to the Volcanic Rye recipes?  It sounds interesting should I fire up my rye starter?





LeadDog's picture
LeadDog 2009 August 3
Terri  do you have "Local Breads" by Daniel Leader?  The book has a number of errors in the formulas but until this bread I was able to figure out the formula.  The hydration according to what he has in the book is 53%.  The dough he describes is a very wet dough so if a person wants to make this bread you have to make a guess at the hydration.  I have never heard of Volcanic Rye recipes so I'm not sure if they are related.  Leader also noted that the bakers of that area don't keep a rye starter but use their wheat starter and build on it with rye, that is what I did for this bread.  The interesting part about this bread is even through it is 71% rye it rose just as high as a wheat bread.  I'm curious as to what I'll find inside when I cut into it.  I'm hoping it turns out wonderful.
Millciti's picture
Millciti 2009 August 3

I have had problems with some of the recipes that I tried and saw some blogged comments on some serious flaws in his formulas.  Initially I guessed my problems were caused by my inexperience with Breadmaking.  But I still like to revisit the book, his stories are wonderful and the pictures are so beautiful.  But as my experience with sourdough grows I am more and more convinced that many factors influence every sourdough recipe.  It is hard to cover all of the conditions or factors that lead to consistant success. 

In the back of my head I kind of think that some of the bakers that he met, have ways of tweaking the recipes he was given.  I'm sure you have never given a recipe to someone who keeps claiming you forgot to tell them some secret ingredient.

With me it was the peanut butter fudge recipe we grew up with.  3 ingredients and you had the best creamy peanut butter fudge, sugar, buttermilk and peanutbutter.  But if you cooked it <1% over or under the correct temperature you got dry crumbles or spoon fudge.  The recipe was right, but the preciseness of the method is what made the fudge so great.

I keep my whole grain starter with a pinch of rye, whole wheat or spelt.  So I just need to refresh it with rye.  Unfortunately I can't get fresh rye only organic, so we will have to see how it goes:) 

Rye by the way is one of the first things I tried and at that time there were so many things I didn't know... like how really sticky it is... I mean really, really, sticky especially to hand knead if you know what I MEAN!  The volcanic discussion is here...  You still have a little bit of sunday night left... I must get to bed for now!  It is a good topic to visit.



LeadDog's picture
LeadDog 2009 August 3
Ok I took a look at that topic and I'm going to wait another day to cut the bread.
Yes I too like the stories and pictures of "Local Breads".  This bread just has an additional challenge to it for me.  I think I got the hydration close to what it should be but we might not ever know.
You must have a different starter strategy than I do.  I just feed mine course whole wheat.  When I want to make bread I take a little bit of that and do two builds to get the starter I put into the dough. 100% goes into the bread so I don't have to remember to hold a little bit back.
Johnny's picture
Johnny 2009 August 4
This was my attempt after reading the volcano rye thread. I would have liked wider cracks but the crumb was pretty good. I am starting to develop a real fondness for these breads. If yours is good can you please post your formula Duane? I wish I could get some better flour. Some whole meal or kibbled rye would be great to try in the soaker.
Millciti's picture
Millciti 2009 August 4

After re-reading the volcano topic I will give my starter another cycle.  I think I want more of a Sauerteig vs Sauer starter.  My starter theory is that if you don't want 4-6 different starters you feed some of what grains you want to culture to the one you have.  It seems to make a more responsive starter since it contains yeasts from different grains. 

Also I am using the doughball, keep it at room temp method - for my whole grain starter. When I first started to convert to this method it seemed that my starter was more beery and sour smelling.  Now it doesn't matter what combination of whole spelt, rye, or wheat that I feed it - fruity - sweet overipe fruit smell is the aroma now.

I am still maintaining my oldest white "Calvel" starter which I refrigerate in two parts.  One at 60-75% hydration, and one at 100-125% hydration so that they are easier to convert depending on the recipe.  And they seem to have the more beery sour smell going.

So when will you be posting the recipe/formula?  And Johnny that loaf looks Fab I went back to look at the crumbshot today:)  Can you get rolled rye flakes?


Johnny's picture
Johnny 2009 August 5
I keep 4 different starters with different flours and also feed with the particular combination I want through 2 builds using Duane's method. I am a bit paranoid that I will wake up one day and my starter will be dead so I keep back-ups. You can judge my level of anxiety by opening my fridge and counting the jars of starter! Depending on the last clean-out the number ranges from 2 to 6 :)
I found some cracked organic Rye supplier online and ordered some in. Very expensive way to buy it unfortunately..
Millciti's picture
Millciti 2009 August 5

The bread of the masses...  And we have to look hard to find enough fresh stuff for a decent loaf.  I tried the stuff from the amish market and they have two products white rye pasty stuff and what looks to be the other parts minus the endosperm.  I found neither to be right for sourdough bread.  But I can get 24oz of Bob's Redmill dark organic for $1.68 U.S.  And I think the rolled rye was pretty cheap I bought it a while back at an organic market.




LeadDog's picture
LeadDog 2009 August 5
I'm a bad boy.  The bread was cut today and I took pictures of the crumb but I left my camera at work.  I will start the write up but will not publish it until I get the crumb shot.  Terri the book very specifically said that rye flour was added to a wheat starter so that is how I made the bread.
My storage starter is a 40 gram dough ball at 50% hydration.  I leave it out on the counter and feed it once a week.  This is how I have been keeping my starter for the past eight months.  The "flour" I feed the starter is a course grind of wheat.  To me this gives my bread a sour flavor that is just right. Once a week I keep about 10 grams and add to it 10 grams of water plus 20 grams of wheat flour.  Most of my breads start off with about 15 grams of starter so if I make two breads a week there is very little waste.
When I do other grain breads the first build I have used the new flour at 100% and never had a problem.  This is one of other reasons why I do two builds is to get the organisms use to the new flour.
Now some questions about the rye bread.  The formula has the salt at 3% which is what I did but to me it tasted like it was to much.  Nobody else complained about the salt.  Is it normal for rye to have this much salt?  I let the bread cool for over 24 hours and the crust was tough and chewy, is this to be expected?  I was wondering if I made it again about cutting the salt back to 2% and maybe adding a little olive oil.
The crumb was nice and soft with irregular holes here and there but mostly very uniformed.  I was thinking that maybe raising the hydration to 90% and lowering the salt there would be better cracks but I'm not sure how it is supposed to look.  I do like the nice dark brown color that I see surrounded by the while flour.
I got some buckwheat today for my next experiment. 
Millciti's picture
Millciti 2009 August 5

At least to my experience you could really tell if you used american salted butter or spread on european Bread.  But with unsalted butter like the locals used it tasted perfect.  American Bread in comparison is bland without salted butter.  But sourdough is a different story of course.  I tend to go a little lite on salt since my Hubby has high blood pressure.

I can't find my book right now but is this the bread that he talks about being so huge?




LeadDog's picture
LeadDog 2009 August 6

Classic Rye Crumb

This is the best rye bread I have ever made.  We have a new person starting in the lab and she said this was the best bread ever.  I had to laugh to myself because she doesn't know about all the bread that I make.

Johnny's picture
Johnny 2009 August 8
I couldn't resist making another lava loaf. This is the first time I have done it with 100% rye. I followed Danubian's formula and tried the soaker method. Unfortunately my order of kibbled rye had not arrived so I had to make do with some Farmer's mixed grain which had some cracked rye in it. As well as 35% leaven, I did use a little yeast and found it helped to make for big wide cracks and a nice rise. Only problem was when I turned it out onto the peel the loaf deflated a fair bit. Next time I might leave out the yeast or do the final prove in my cast iron pot so I don't have to handle it at all.I could only wait about 16hrs before cutting the bread and I must say I do like the crumb and the taste. The crust was quite thick and chewy and the bread was full flavoured and had just the right sourness for my tastes.So next I'd like to try LD's version of Dan Leader's rye now we have his write up. Thanks mate:)
LeadDog's picture
LeadDog 2009 August 8
Johnny after looking at the bubbles in my almost 100% rye starter I have been wanting to make a 100% rye.  I'm going to start off small because there is no use in cooking up 2200 grams flops.  Your 100% rye just encourages me to try it.  Nice looking bread and good holes. 
 This weekend I'm messing around with some Buckwheat.
LeadDog's picture
LeadDog 2010 March 17

 Hi Mick, thanks for trying out my version.  That bread sounded to good not to try and figure out how to make.  I did read your post and if you can edit your blog Paso Robles is spelled wrong.  Other than that everything else looked good over there.

LeadDog's picture
LeadDog 2010 March 18

 I read how you did it.  Someday I'll have to try it without the Dutch Oven.  The Brit ignorance is just fine.  I live here and still have problems spelling the crazy names.

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