Hello bakers want to introduce myself and ask some questions. I've been brewing beer for awhile and since I have a refrigerator full of different yeast strains I figured I'd try and make some sourdough which is the only type of bread I like. I got my starter going with a Belgian ale yeast and I got that taste in my first loaf not so much in the 2nd so I assume it's mutated with some local yeast. That's not a problem I can just make fresh starter every time the problem is it's not sour enough. What do you think about adding some lacto in the form of good belly or yogurt? I know over time the starter will go sour but then I loose the yeast flavor. All comments are appreciated
Category:
Replies
Hi Brewcat if using your brewers yeast and growing it in a flour medium you will still only be propogating whatever strain of yeast you have started out with. if you are enjoying the flavour that a particular strain is giving you it is probably best to use that brewers strain fresh each time. As you stated the flavour had diminished with your second bake. I dont think that you are actually getting a "Sour dough starter" forming that has the lactobascillus and wild yeast strains that form naturally from grain and the environment. Adding commercial good gut flora may not work and a good sour dough starter has developed with a good symbiotic culture. Yogurts are quite good additions and can make some great breads as can sour cream and milk but i would use them as add ins to the dough rather than in a sour dough culture. Cultures need to be kept fairly simple, Brewers and yeast companies do a lot in selecting their strains of yeasts in the laboratory and keeping them pure and growing them on.
Kind regards Derek
Hi Brewcat i use a number of different yeasts and cultures for my bread making, and enjoy experimenting with different yeasts too. I like to use the dregs from the bottom of my brewing container once ive decanted the beer it keeps well in the fridge too, i usually feed that a couple of times with flour, starting off with a relatively small amount building up to an amount that will be required for a bake, this helps to cut down on waste. This isn't what i would call a sour dough culture rather just a brew culture but can be treated in much the sameway in a 3:2:1 type formula for sour dough for bread making! For an authentic Sourdough then i use a culture that i have had going for some time this is where the culture has been started from its local surrounds capturing wild yeasts and lactobicillus. You can of course take a short cut and obtain a sourdough culture form a friend/fellow S/D baker. It is very rewarding though to start your own culture from scratch. there is plenty of articles on that subject as are articles on encouraging sourness into those S/D cultures.
regards Derek
Saccharomyces cerevisiae is the yeast that is used commercially in bread production, but i have noticed up at the brew shop that quite a few of the sachets of yeast there are also listed as Saccharomyces cerevisiae it's just that they are further defined with numbers or letters especially some of the wine yeasts. These of course have been selected for their tolerance of higher alchol levels that come about during their fermentation. Brewing also has yeasts that as you suggested the Belgian Ale yeast that tolerate different temperatures. Lagers and Stouts are good examples of that difference.
From the point of view of achieving a more sour S/D I have found that if the S/D culture is treated with some neglect ie not being fed when it is ready for a feed for a few days and it starts to exhibit a bit of hooch then that will often induce that sourness that some people like. Probably best to get a couple of good feeds into it prior to baking just to make sure it has some vigor. GOOD LUCK always fun and always learning, if you can keep notes on what you have done they will prove invaluable later when you want to replicate something you have done.
i still have my technical college notes from 50+ years ago when i did my baking apprenticeship and have refered to them on many an occassion even though the dough formulas where in lbs and ounces then and temperatures were farenheight. but still relevent interesting and historic.
kind regards Derek
Hi Brewcat i think the use of the dregs in the fermenter can be classified as a Barm, the cropping of the foam from the top of a fermenting beer was done for bakers use before yeast was commercially available and in fact brewers were compelled to make it available to bakers at a regulated price.
I was given a book by my daughter called Elizabeth David English Bread and Yeast Cookery it is an interesting read and deals with bread making back into history the chapter on yeast you would find fascinating im sure. it has accounts of how house keepers used Ale to obtain the yeast required to ferment bread they made.
Try your library for this book. Where abouts are you located? i'm In Perth Western Australia.
Half a century back it was lbs and ounces, pounds shillings and pence . now dollars and cents and grams Which really is much easier.