Hi,
I've been making sourdough using a drier style starter and following Richard Bertinet's french style method, which involves creating a wet dough and kneading it BEFORE any proofing etc. This method works well but seems to me to be pretty labour intensive.
I am looking for advice on changing the starter from dry (it's like a stiff, honeycombed dough) to wet. Do I just add more water?! Could it really be that simple?
Then, if I can adapt my starter, I want to have a go at making sourdough bread (a basic brown loaf), using the wet starter to create a 'sponge' or wet dough, leaving this overnight etc, before adding more four and kneading etc. No doubt such a method is already detailed somewhere on this site - perhaps someone could point me in the right direction.
Cheers,
Ruth
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Replies
[quote=JohnD]Hi Ruth, there are heaps af idiosyncratic sourdough techniques, and you are right,lots of it is just timewasting hype. You can make exceptional s/d bread making a straight dough from your ripe leaven.What lots of these bakers dont do,is objectively assess their breads from an organoleptic,rather than technical criteria....and other bakers dont eat your bread,customers or you do,so it doesnt matter if other bakers think its not architecturally perfect, what really matters is its edibility! [/quote]
John, great advice for Ruth; I couldn't agree more with your post!
The only exception is that although 'good food' should be as you say "edible", and we agree on that criteria, I also believe food should be visually pleasing, have an 'aesthetic' character. Of course, this criteria is subjective; in all societies aesthetic tastes develope, evolve, or morph into many variations in any decade influenced by the "zeitgeist". Although not strictly essential it is still important to us all.
Right on, well said Boris,i remember wanting to hurl loaves at the wall because they werent as i wanted,and being restrained from doing so,and hearing a customer say that she loved the appearance of the particular loaves as they were "so rustic",while i foamed at the mouth in the background. Im reacting to the fact that bread was never tasted as a criteria in Australian bread shows,until we pressured the Sydney easter show to do it in 96,and the judges were horrified how bad the perfect looking,technically excellent breads tasted.
Outside of the "Vienna slipper" there were almost no crusty breads ever made by Australian bakers,not even the English "Cottage",and "cobs" were baked on trays...no sole bread....which is really strange.
I agree, in the trade as a whole the volume of sole baked bread is still marginal.
- lecithin (found in soya flour which is commonly used in 'bread improvers') this is probably the most inoccous and used by almost all conventional bakeries, small and large.
- Sodium stearoyl lactylate (SSL) often used by industrial bakeries
- Calcuim stearoyl lactylate (CSL) again often used by industrial bakeries
- diacetyl tartaric acid esters of mono-diglycerides (DATEM) industrial
bakeries and some smaller bakeries use specialist ingredients such as
shortenings and margarines which contain these compounds
- Sorbitan industrial bakeries used in some cakes
There are a few more which I just can't rememeber without my reference books.Some of these impart a very unpleasant aroma and flavour, but they have powerful anti-firming properties which interfere with moisture migration within the loaf crumb by reducing the propensity of the starch to retrograde after baking and during cooling. The realignment of the starch amylose chains causes firming. Emulsifers reduce this process. Enzymes also contribute to anti-firming by degrading the amylopectins which prevents retrgrading or realignment of the amylopectins in the starch chains. The holy grail of industrial baking is to prevent crumb firming with the use of additives. The really ridiculous thing is that well fermented (even yeasted conventional bread) has the ability to remain 'fresh' (lets not quibble about the term 'fresh' in this context) without these additives. But this requires long fermentations.
And i bet there isnt one bit of research examining the impact of these chems on human health....except that our senses warn us by the offensive odour and taste. Its mind boggling that people are conditioned to eat that stuff, or that they can be put in a "staple" food.
As ive said,the immigrants of the 50`s have told me over and over that they built ovens in their backyards because they simply couldnt eat the bread when they arrived here...yet Australians seem so docile!
And i bet there isnt one bit of research examining the impact of these chems on human health....except that our senses warn us by the offensive odour and taste. Its mind boggling that people are conditioned to eat that stuff, or that they can be put in a "staple" food.[/quote]
I'm not able to post any references to research on their impact without doing an extensive search of the relevant journals and university libraries. But I think it'd be reasonable to conclude that after the American FDA approval - ANZFA and PHAA usually follow suit - 'approved' food additives and drugs are not usually subject to intense research with emphasis on the safety. The prevailing attitude by Commercial interests is that the hurdle has been jumped and the green light is shining. The other element to consider is that commercial interests do have influence over the approval process. Post approval research is most often commercially driven and usually concerns itself with the application of these compounds in other food manufacturing processes rather than safety. But having said that, there are instances where approval has been withdrawn many years after the compound was in extensive use; but the number of those instances are very small indeed.
[quote=JohnD]As ive said,the immigrants of the 50`s have told me over and over that they built ovens in their backyards because they simply couldnt eat the bread when they arrived here...yet Australians seem so docile![/quote]
From my childhood I have vivid memories of my parents, who arrived in the 50's, making a weekly pilgrimage to a then well known European deli in the heart of Sydney to buy bread.