Sourdough hot cross buns

The last few weeks I have been experimenting with hot cross buns. I was inspired by Mick's recipe from a year or two ago.
http://www.danlepard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=239

I confess though that I didn't have a lot of success with that recipe (great taste, poor rise). I still don't know quite where I am going wrong.
My leaven doesn't seem to like the rich sweet spicy dough

So last weekend I tried a 'conventional' recipe of Dan Lepard's
http://www.waitrose.com/food_drink/recipes/recipesearch/recipe/0603032-r...
which resulted in fantastically flavourful HCBs.

So over the last couple of days I have tried a sourdough version of Dan Lepard's recipe.
As will become apparent this is a bit of an unusual recipe

Tuesday night
1. Preferment
200g white leaven (100% hydration)  66%
200g strong white flour  66%
200g warm milk (I used soy milk) 66%
1 1/2 tsp salt
zest 1/2 orange

stir together until well combined.
left overnight (kitchen temp ~12 degrees)

Wednesday morning
2. Mix dough

Melt 75g margarine/butter in saucepan   25%
Add 2 tsp mixed spice

In separate bowl
Mix
3 tablespoons golden syrup
25g milk (soy)     8%
250g sultanas/currants         83%
add in margarine/spice mixture

Add to flour/leaven
Add
100g W/M bakers flour  33%

mix roughly, leave for ten minutes (it makes a very moist dough!)
quick knead on oiled surface
leave for 10 minutes - another quick knead

3. Bulk ferment
leave for 2 hours
then put dough in fridge

4. Shape
(I was going to do this Wednesday evening, but didn't get home from work until 4am - so did it then)
divide into 8
Shape into mini boules

5. Proove
Let rise for ~4 hours

mix 2 tablespoons flour and 1-2 T water
pipe on crosses onto buns

6. Bake
About 1/2 hour at 210C

7. Glaze
Dan uses a sugar glaze on his hot cross buns, but I didn't get a chance to do that. Will perhaps try next time


Sugar Glaze
100g golden caster sugar
100ml water
A few drops of lemon juice
make the glaze by bringing the sugar and water to the boil in a small saucepan. Simmer for a few minutes until syrupy, then remove from the heat and stir in the lemon juice. Cool and brush over the tops of the buns while warm.


Verdict:
Very tasty hot cross buns. Good rise and crust.
A little over-sour for a sweet bun, which is probably not surprising given the high percentage of leaven (50%), the long preferment, and the long retardation in the fridge (not really intended - just what happens when you work stupid hours).

Plan:
Try again with reduced time for preferment (perhaps 6 hours?) and reduced time in the fridge. I will try Dan's glaze next time.
I'll post photos when I can

cheers
Dom

33 comments

I've made some HCBs - they are on this link (and they are a poor relation to TP's)

http://www.danlepard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6503#6503

I didn't make the recipe I posted as I fancied staying pure sourdough and am well pleased by the result. Pete

TP,
They look fab. You ought to try sourdough char xiu buns!Wow square looks good to me , heck all your bread looks fabulous 99% of the time!
Welcome to the business world!

Jeremy

Sorry to do linking instead of posting...but I'm bushed...partly from being a bit worried/nervous/panicky about My First Bread Sale. Story's [url=http://www.danlepard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6497#6497]here[/url].

Hi,

I gladly did Dom's sourdough recipe. I didn't try them as they were for someone else but they seemed promising, if not spot on due to a poor rise during proofing. Like you noted Dom, I sense my leaven is struggling now the weather is abit cooler. This is my first autumn in my current flat, which is always very cool. I did the bulk fermentation out of the fridge in a coolish room and it came on well. I look forward to trying the recipe again next year, if not soon as a fruit/spice bun anyway, perhaps with a dash of cardomom and ground cloves (my own taste).
Cheers,

Craig

ps. If I may say, I am greatly looking forward to the sourdough batch I collected from Natural Tucker tomorrow!

TP, having posted it and also made the decision to make HCBs I suspect that I should try it and post accordingly.

Pete

TP,
I recently added apple into my rye dough and the staling didn't happen till after 5 day's, I also noticed it made my loaf lighter not as dense, some German commercial bakers even use soy flour, though I didn't trying to keep from using too much processed stuff!

happy baking!
Jeremy

Pete - I'd be more inclined to try the recipe if you or someone else has given it a go.

Jake - Gorgeous buns. I always thought that a full sourdough would give a more moist crumb?

Roland - Many thanks. I should learn to be more 'cool', lol. However, I'll be selling these for the first time; that's why I want to get it as 'right' as possible.

Dom - I do like DL's recipe but according to slimmy (one person's findings, though) the buns staled the next day. Most of my customers (can't get used to that term) would like to keep the buns for a little over one day for their children to bring to school. I did a very quick baker's % comparison between the JH recipe you posted upthread and DL's BWP recipe...there may be some errors...a very quick job.

JH..............DL
100...........100 flour
1.3...........0.8 yeast
65............49 liquid
0.............3 skimmed milk powder
15............11 sugar
1.............2 salt
12............10 butter
2.............1 mixed spice
28............11 raisin
9.............11 peel
0..............1 egg

I'll stick with DL's recipe but with an increase in the hydration and possibly the butter amount. Also, I'll be converting it to partial sourdough. Will report later in the week.

wow, what a response. It is obviously very topical!

Roland, thanks for your advice. This year I have been baking my HCBs in a high baking tray spaced more closely (see the slightly blurry photo below), and as TP alludes, one suggestion on another forum was to bake them further apart!!

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/7852-1/HXB.jpg[/img]

TP, I like both Dan's and Jeffery's recipes. The version that I have just posted, which is a hybridised version of Jeffery's is my favourite of this year's experiments. (For the record, I added some sourdough starter, increased the fruit a little, added cinnamon to the allspice, and omitted the egg). The resulting HCBs are definitely soft, and so far (at 48 hours) are keeping quite well for HCBs. But I seem to remember some gorgeous photos of your previous years' hot cross buns - so perhaps you should stick to what you know?

Jake - your ones look great! What a beautiful photo.
I too have found the 100% sourdough versions a little dry, very slow to rise, and pretty heavy (also very 'chewy'). That is why I haven't tried them this year. I may yet. (My current theory, at least with my starter is that it really needs quite a warm proofing temperature with an enriched dough, and the Melbourne temperatures have dropped a bit in the last week).

cheers
Dom

[quote="TeckPoh"]
I don't really know if there's such a thing as an authentic HXB? Or is it one of the many things which has many versions? I was advised in Dan's forum to form the buns further apart to get a more rounded shape. And, now, I see this. I think the soft side ones go better with asian tastes as they do not like crusts. But if the rounded ones are more traditional....?
[/quote]

Hey TP

Stick with what you feel works for you....
besides... placing the buns closer together on a tray allows you to bake more in one go!

Smile

I don't think there is a traditional HCB per se.

I'm no asian, by any stretch of the imagination, but I DO like my HCB soft!

Happy baking!

Roland

I've been following this without contributing but (whilst searching for something else) found this:

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/food ... 405030.ece

Hope it's of use/interest. The writer of the article is a chef with a good reputation in the UK.

Pete

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/7895-2/IMG_1890_001.JPG[/img]

Here's my Easter preparations. It was my second batch of 100% sourdough buns. Basically a conglomoration of internet recipes converted to sourdough. The first batch was rather dry and dense. The crumb structure in the above batch was pretty good, although they were still a bit dry. Any tips on that one? Why is that they are so dry?

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/7889-2/IMG_1901.JPG[/img]

The recipe was as follows (sorry, I have no decent scales here so everything is in cups):
2 cups of starter (100%)
2 cups of strong white flour + 1 cup regular white flour
4 tbsp honey
2 tsp salt
80g melted butter
2 eggs
2 tsps cinnamon
1/2 tsp ginger
1/8 tsp pepper (could use a bit more)
1 1/2 cups sultanas
A bit of milk to get to a nice sticky consistency.

Crosses:
2 tbsp flour + 2 tbsp water mixed to a paste and piped on.

Glaze:
Milk (brushed on a few times after I pulled them out of the oven)

Basically, I mixed everything together to get a fairly sticky, wet dough. I let it sit for about an hour. I gave it a quick knead so that everything became thoroughly mixed. Bulk ferment for 9 hours. Final proof for 4 hours. Before placing them in a hot oven (about 230 degrees C, although who knows with my leaky little oven), I brushed some milk on to get them to brown a bit quicker. And I piped the crosses on of course.

The spices really slowed things down. But in the end they seemed fairly wel risen. And placing it on a hot oven stone gave it an extra bit of lift (although not as much as I'm used to with a normal loaf).

All in all, not too bad for my second try, I thought. Just a wee bit on the dry side. Any suggestions on combatting that one???

Jake

[quote="rbd"]
Hey Dom

By placing the small balls of dough closer together on a (smallish) high rimmed baking tray, this will force the dough to go up only one way.... UP!

You will also end up with those delightfull soft sides, which allows you to break open a bun by hand, smother the inside with plenty of butter, and get stuck into it!!

Happy Easter!

Roland
[/quote]

I don't really know if there's such a thing as an authentic HXB? Or is it one of the many things which has many versions? I was advised in Dan's forum to form the buns further apart to get a more rounded shape. And, now, I see this. I think the soft side ones go better with asian tastes as they do not like crusts. But if the rounded ones are more traditional....?

Hey Dom

Those look pretty scrumptious!!

Haven't made any SD HCB yet myself, (already had plenty of the yeasted variety) but may give one of your recipes a try over the next few days....

Just a tip, if I may....

By placing the small balls of dough closer together on a (smallish) high rimmed baking tray, this will force the dough to go up only one way.... UP!

You will also end up with those delightfull soft sides, which allows you to break open a bun by hand, smother the inside with plenty of butter, and get stuck into it!!

Happy Easter!

Roland

Dom, I shall draw 3 HXBs on a piece of paper with the 3 different recipes you have mentioned so far (here and over at Dan's), i.e.

1. Dan's
2. Jack's
3. Jeffrey's

paste it on a wall, and fly a dart to see which one I hit, because all of them sound good.

Between Dan's and Jeffrey's, which do you prefer? Which is softer? Aiiii...I need to decide which one to make to sell for the coming weekend.

[quote="SourDom"]
Craig,

thanks for bumping this thread,

I had forgotten to be honest that I posted this recipe last year, and had completely forgotten the link to Jack Lang's recipe, which I still haven't tried (I'm not sure about the milk powder...)

The glaze that I used was almost certainly a sugar syrup with 1:1 sugar to water
(dissolve say 50g caster sugar in 50ml water, bring to boil then take off heat. Brush on still warm buns). See also the quote from DL above

In the last couple of weeks I have been having some success with hybrid hot cross buns. I confess I haven't tried making any pure sourdough this year, as I was after something a little lighter.

This was the most recent version, which is a (per)version of Jeffery Hamelman's recipe in 'Bread'

Sponge
230g (soy) milk - warmed
11g sugar
45g flour
1 tsp yeast

Mix the above, and leave to rise for ~1 hour

Dough
400g flour
all of sponge
200g sourdough starter (at 125%)
68g margarine/butter
1 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp allspice
5g salt
68g caster sugar
150g currants
50g mixed peel

rub the margarine/butter into the flour
add the spices, sugar and salt
mix in the sponge and starter, and mix well
rest for 10 minutes
Quick (10 second) knead)
rest for 10 minutes
Quick knead
rest for 10 minutes
mix in the fruit

Bulk - ~2 hours with a fold half way

Divide into ~100g buns (x12)
shape, and let rise for ~ 1 hour

Pipe on crosses

(60 plain flour, 40g water, 15g oil
add extra water until right consistency
pipe on)

Bake for ~15 mins

Brush with sugar syrup

cheers
Dom
[/quote]

Craig,

thanks for bumping this thread,

I had forgotten to be honest that I posted this recipe last year, and had completely forgotten the link to Jack Lang's recipe, which I still haven't tried (I'm not sure about the milk powder...)

The glaze that I used was almost certainly a sugar syrup with 1:1 sugar to water
(dissolve say 50g caster sugar in 50ml water, bring to boil then take off heat. Brush on still warm buns).

In the last couple of weeks I have been having some success with hybrid hot cross buns. I confess I haven't tried making any pure sourdough this year, as I was after something a little lighter.

This was the most recent version, which is a (per)version of Jeffery Hamelman's recipe in 'Bread'

Sponge
230g (soy) milk - warmed
11g sugar
45g flour
1 tsp yeast

Mix the above, and leave to rise for ~1 hour

Dough
400g flour
all of sponge
200g sourdough starter (at 125%)
68g margarine/butter
1 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp allspice
5g salt
68g caster sugar
150g currants
50g mixed peel

rub the margarine/butter into the flour
add the spices, sugar and salt
mix in the sponge and starter, and mix well
rest for 10 minutes
Quick (10 second) knead)
rest for 10 minutes
Quick knead
rest for 10 minutes
mix in the fruit

Bulk - ~2 hours with a fold half way

Divide into ~100g buns (x12)
shape, and let rise for ~ 1 hour

Pipe on crosses

(60 plain flour, 40g water, 15g oil
add extra water until right consistency
pipe on)

Bake for ~15 mins

Brush with sugar syrup

cheers
Dom

Thankyou Dom for sharing your very tempting recipe. From the photo it looks as though you used some type of glaze in the end. If so, I was wondering what you used? They are a great looking batch of Hot-x-buns.

Cheers,

Craig

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/3774-1/hot+cross+buns+160406.jpg[/img]

I'm hot-cross-bunned out for this year, but I have just found another recipe for sourdough hot cross buns

[url]http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=63316[/url]

It is a version by Jack Lang of a different Dan Lepard recipe.
I might have to try it next year!

cheers
Dom

This year I have made several batches of Hot Cross Buns, though mostly yeast-based recipes (sorry I'll wash my mouth out), partly because of the need to make some with kids

Today, inspired by Jacqueline's success (on Dan Lepard's forum) I converted by recent recipe to sourdough. Here it is.

Starter
340g (soy) milk
250g strong white flour
1 tsp starter

Leave for ~12 hours

Soak 250g dried fruit (currants, raisins, candied peel) in boiling water, and leave for 12 hours

Dough
200g strong white flour
50g wholemeal flour
7g salt
75g brown sugar
1/2 tsp allspice, 1/2 tsp gr ginger, 1/2 tsp nutmeg, 1tsp cinnamon
75g margarine/butter
melt the margarine and mix into the dry ingredients
add starter and fruit

Mix/knead briefly, leave for 10 minutes
repeat,
Bulk for 3-4 hours, with folds every hour

Divide into 14 x  90g (~12 x 100g), shape
Put in fridge overnight

The next morning
make piping mix
5g olive oil
25g water
23g flour

Brush tops of buns with (soy) milk
Pipe on crosses

Bake at ~200C for ~25 mins


Make sugar syrup
25g caster sugar
25g water
simmer in saucepan until dissolved, and then a minute or two

Glaze warm buns with sugar syrup after they come out of the oven.

And here are the results





It is an unusual recipe in the high proportion of starter, and the use of soy milk in the starter, but to my surprise it worked extremely well.

This morning's batch was demolished at work today. They were soft, moist and very moreish

I've probably done my dash for this Easter season, but I will definitely come back to this recipe next year.

Dom

I tried this recipe last weekend, but using regular milk and all white flour instead of some wholemeal. I also added a tablespoon of marsala (just because).

The buns were soft, the flavour beautiful and the bread lovely and moist, but perhaps a bit TOO moist. On reflection, perhaps I shouldn't have added the soaking liquid from the fruit?

I'm going to give it another go but this time up the flour a little to compensate for not using wholemeal, and leave out the soaking liquid!

 Marsala... sounds like a great idea, Merrid. And despite my bent for needing scientific reasons for doing something, I think "just because" is still one of the soundest!  

It's often those little additions which add a touch of brilliance - for instance Earl Grey tea in one of the fruit loaf recipes here. I wish I had that inspired touch to be able to come up with additions like this - but being able to benefit from someone else's great ideas is not too shabby.

Kym.

 

Well, the real reason was because I was somewhat interrupted in the course of the recipe so the fruit got left soaking for a full 24 hours instead of only 12, and I was concerned some of the flavour would be lost. And, well, there was an opened bottle of marsala on the kitchen benchtop from when I poached some figs the other day...

 Haha, still sounds serendipitous to me.

As long as the overall hydration is OK, I'd be tempted to keep the soaking liquid - the flavours must add something?

Kym

Well, SourDom's recipe didn't say, but then he didn't specify a quantity of water for the soaking liquid so I suspect it wasn't supposed to be added. And the mix with it in was rather wet, to say the least, although I tried to use as little liquid as possible.

I'm thinking next time I might just use the 1 tablespoon of marsala and warm the fruit in it, and add an extra 50g white flour for a total of 300g in the dough phase - that should improve things somewhat. The texture was VERY soft and more cake-like than bread-like. Mmm, looking forward to Friday!

 I just made this recipe (invented a new number - a baker's 19!), and I see exactly what you mean about the soaking liquid.

I found that 250g of fruit absorbed almost all of 250g of water - including a splash of muscat, taking a varied leaf out of your book, Merrid. The final dough was very wet though, and I added quite a lot of extra flour to bring it back to what I thought was a reasonable looking hydration. I didn't measure it exactly as I was going on sight and feel - but it would have been getting towards another 100g. My fruit included some cooked apple and apricots, so that might have added moisture.

The result is terrific - thanks Dom! The buns are moist and flavoursome, and I can see at least 2 more batches being produced over the next few days.

Oh, my, they DO look fabulous!

I've just made up a batch of sponge this morning, ready for another go this evening - and yours look so wonderful I'm wondering how I could possibly match them!

But I am going to include a little bit of dried apple in the mix, I think - and use the fig poaching liquid for my splash of marsala (it had some cinnamon in it too).

Yay! I love Easter and sourdough HCBs!

 Hehe, thanks Merrid - yes they look OK don't they! No credit to me though - I basically just followed the recipe and added the extra flour to balance the fruit liquid.

I did a second batch this morning which came out the same, so I'm feeling more and more confident. I took inspiration from a fruit loaf recipe here, and included some brewed Earl Grey tea in the soaking water - plus a touch of orange blossom water. Sometimes it's hard to know where to stop, and I was afraid I might be overdoing it, but they do add a subtle extra. Best of all, my wife and daughters are full of compliments - and they are fearlessly objective critics...

Kym.

Choices, choices, choices! Thanks for making it difficult for me. I'll be making HXBs in a couple of days.

Thanks for sharing your detailed process, Dom. They really look GOOD.
Just reading some of the sourdough recipes listed here. I am interested in changing from making normal bread, using white flour, to sourdough baking. Due to considerations for diabetic issues. I am not diabetic, but it runs in the family, and so am changing so that I don't get it.

I have had better luck with breads rising when I don't put cinnamon into the bread while it is rising. Yeast will rise with it in, but it will not rise as it should. Yeast also doesn't like garlic, and that is why its always mixed and put on top of the bread, for its final stages and into the oven.
If you want cinnamon in to dough, I would try mixing it when you shape the buns, before proofing once more before its oven time.

Bun wash, makes the buns shiney. 1 package of unflavoured gelatine, and just enough water to make 1 cup of the gelatine. As the buns come out of the oven, brush on the gelatine, and as the bread cools, the shine dries, but stays shiney.

I haven't ventured too much in this field, of sourdough, but intend to in the new year. 

Evelyn Jepson

 
[img]http://foolishpoolishbakes.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/2009-hot-cross-buns-5.jpg[/img]

For those who are interested, I've posted about it on my blog: http://foolishpoolishbakes.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/hot-cross-buns/

Cheers,

FP

Whilst not strictly in the main vein of the site, sourdough does at least get a mention.

www.broadsheet.com.au/melbourne/food-and-drink/article/hot-cross-buns-get-them-while-theyre-hot

Unfrotunately, I have had to give the HCB a miss this year but when I get a chance I might just make some anyway.  If the supermarkets can have them from after Christmas, I can probably safely have them after Easter /;-{)}

All the best for the holidays,

Farinam

 

I gave Sour Dom’s sourdough Hot Cross Bun recipe a try and they were a hit at work this morning. I made a few amendments:
a)      Added the zest of 1 orange to the dry fruit when soaking
b)      Soaked the fruit in 250g of boiling water
c)       I had 110g of water left over after soaking for 12 hrs. The water was a lovely brown, full of fruit flavour so I decided to use it
d)      Added an additional 200g of strong white flour to compensate for the additional “fruit water”
e)      Increased the butter to 90g and brown sugar to 85g to compensate
f)       Increased the spices to ¾ of a tsp
g)      Added ¾ tsp of ground cumin seed. Elizabeth David has a recommended spice mix for Hot Cross Buns in her book “Bread”. She highly recommends Cumin Seed as an essential ingredient.
h)      Added a squeeze of lemon juice to the glaze
i)        Added a tsp of lemon juice to the pipping mix
I got home late last night so the dough had an extra couple of hours than suggested for the first prove, it end up being about 6hrs in total. It also meant that when I got up this morning at 5:30am the shaped buns had not increased in size (i.e. they had been in the fridge for 5 ½ hours). I took them out of the fridge and put the heater on to get them moving. By 8am they had increased in size by about 1 ½ times and where ready to bake. Baked at 220 degree’s ish, my old gas oven is not very accurate.  Sorry not crumb shot as they were demolished before it occurred to grab a photo.
Thanks Dom. Love the recipe. The soy milk sourdough polish really works.
Warmest Regards,
Tim

 

 

 

I used Sourdom's recipe with a few amendments and seeing's I have only just started with Sourdough starter in the past week I am very pleased indeed!!!

I made these today with a few changes, my starter was strong white bread flour although I switched to feeding it Organic Rye flour and it exploded to life. I used 60g of this with the milk sponge mixture, infused the butter with cardomon pods and orange zest, left them to rise at room temperature for an additional 4 hours after overnight in the fridge and tried adding boiling water to the oven to make steam to see if it improved the rise, they did rise a lot further in the oven. I also infused the fruit in a drop of whiskey and Amaretto overnight, this is well worth it as the fruit was plump and so tasty.. the shaping could be improved and a smaller tin so they join together!

Of course one had to quality control test them, and they were the most moist, delicious Hot Cross Buns I've tasted!

Will be keeping this recipe and continuing the Sourdough experiments, Thanks Dom and all on this thread Happy Easter!