Wholemeal crumb structure

I've been wondering if it's possible to get bigger...not necessarily huge...uneven holes in wholemeal bread. I've been getting rather dense bread each time I make brown bread. Errr... I think I may have erroneously lumped granary/wholemeal/brown bread together. If anyone would like to expand on the difference, please feel free to do so.

This is a 60% granary/40% strong white loaf with a touch of nutmeg, figs and flaxseed I made today. BTW, I need to get a new bread knife...as you can see. Tastes rather good...the crust was wonderfully nutty and crispy.



Mmmmmmm ... gravy!


TP ... back to your bread for a moment ... the crust on that looks just delicious! I would love to crunch on a bit of that tasty-looking bread! I am yet to experiment with fruity/nutty breads ... but I will now that I have THE book.

I'm with Bill on knives ... I also have an OLD bread knife purchased from the supermarket many years ago that has a plastic handle, I think it cost about $4 (That's about 10 cents US, Jeremy!) - but I would be just lost without it. Even though it is really ancient, I think the fact that it is quite thin redeems it and leaves it a great bread knife. The only 'expensive' knife we have is a beautiful Japanese cleaver for making short work of chickens and pork ... but it is so lovely ... even just to LOOK at!

Hey ... a new thread for photos of your 'tools' ... the good, the bad and the hilarious!


That is if your Tp or Carol, they might latch on this [b]gravy train[/b] and never get off!

I always wondered where that expression might have come from!!

Don't want to go there with my depraved mind set! But i HEARD THAT SPINACH IN THE DAY WHEN POPEYE WAS FIRST STARTED STOOD FOR MARIJUANA? that is why he was smoking it in his pipe, toot-toot!
Cap locks key got stuck, I'm not smoking!

we just grow like bacteria, blooming and spreading till we exhaust our sugar supply! That is if your Tp or Carol, they might latch on this gravy train and never get off!


See this is what will happen with more active members - the crumb structure thread will develop into a bread knife discussion!

This where maedi will soon have to come in with scissors and cut the thread into a "crumb-structure-thread" and a "bread-knife-thread" so that later one finds the stuff again...


I still have my F. Dick knife from culinary school day's as well I think knives are important, just wish I could keep mine sharp at work!

psst Carla that was short!

My dear bianchifan, last week I bought a nice tripod...not quite Manfrotto but works/looks/feels like one, and a protective filter. Just 5 minutes ago, I agreed to buy a Minolta 50mm 1.7 lens from a friend who got it from eBay. One of those beauties you mentioned costs more than all of what I bought plus room for more. Knife or Photography accessories? Not difficult to choose.

Tp you are such a photo wizard, hell just tear that loaf with your hands or chew the end of it like in France with the fat baguettes!


Knives are dangerous, in a womans hands deadly!



Ah knives, we have in Aus an expression "Horses for courses", basically meaning the right tool for the right job. Now I must confess that while my kitchen cooking knives consist of 6 different Japanese laminated steel units, costing between $200 -$300 each, my favourite bread knife is a $6.00 stainless steel "Wiltshire" from the local supermarket. By their very nature bread knives are very difficult to sharpen and, as I stated some months ago, I just buy one of these about every 12 months and throw the old one away.


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Crying or Very sad


the only 'open' wholemeal loaves that I have seen written about are [url=http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=80782]Jack Lang's[/url], done with intensive mixing and a bit of vitamin C.

I've never been able to replicate it in my little domestic food processor, but his loaves look fantastic.


I had a chat with Jack on this. He says..."big holes is high hydration, long bench time and not to overprove, and a stiff starter will help with improving flavour." Will try this soon.

working on a rye/spelt version of my fruity bread, with some nuts and seed, will post, fairly high hydration and well, will see?


Thanks, guys. Soaking all these up like a wholemeal dough...

Markus...interesting wheat...nice purple....nice bread.

The sharp "meal" flakes in wholemeal flour tend to lacerate the walls of the gas cells causing the normal denser crumb of a wholemeal loaf. The higher the proportion of wholemeal the denser the loaf. You will even find a difference in crumb structure between roller ground wholemeal and stone ground wholemeal.

The outer parts of the grain, glume, bran makes the gluten-structure prudish. They soak up lots of water but they are foreign parts and disturb the molecular chains. There is a possibility with cold fermented starter but its very difficult. Perhaps you may get a flat bake.

Don't worry about your bread, it's wonderful.
Have a look at my first attempt with carlas Konini(purple)wheat..
it's a big shot in oWen.

Don't think you can by the nature of the add ins and the grains?
Somebody tell me I am wrong, Chembake? Bill, Graham!