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Uh-oh, I don't think this was the idea... | Sourdough Companion

Uh-oh, I don't think this was the idea...

I tried to make a rustic looking, unslashed loaf with a 'natural grigne.' However, this was the result. I definitely got the 'volcanic look,' as you so aptly describe it Jeremy (although 'giant crater look' might me a better description).

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/7871-2/IMG_1875.JPG[/img]

Basically, it rolled open the opposite way that I had shapen it. Kind of logical I suppose. What'd I do wrong?? I let it prove seamside down before placing it seamside up in the oven.

Jake

78 comments

G'day Jake,

I know this isn't strictly what you're trying to achieve but I thought I'd post it anyway as it's an example of free form cracking without cutting or docking. Contains 80% rye flour; final proof was in a basket with the seam down and placed on the peel and oven sole seam down. However, one influencing factor which you might consider to apply an appropriate but specific technique is the flour type you are using.

[img]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/plutrach/IMG_1715.jpg[/img]

[b]EDIT:[/b] perhaps I should have included, these are not home made considering this section is called [b]"Home Sourdough"[/b]. Made them at work.

Here's the formula and I've added weight values for two loaves @ 1.050 wt. BTW this weight is suited for the small baskets. However if you only have the big baskets then use 1.300 per unit weight.

[img]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/plutrach/IMG_2893-1.jpg[/img]

if u want the free forming craks, the internal temperature has to be 210 degrees farenheit, if it still doesn't crack, then the dough might be a little to tough.


Jake, another thing to consider is to make sure you aren't shorting the final proof time. Based on the light color of the crust, excessive/erratic spring, and the interior folds not incorperating, underproofing would be on my mind. A wetter dough (as suggested) should also help.
-tyler

Yeah, you're right Tyler. I think it was rather underproofed. It wasn't a very good dough all-round. I'm definitely going to try it again soon.

Jake

You're welcome, Jake. Thanks for prompting this 'test'...the rebel in me is liking this free crackle style.

Very Happy


very wet dough, but still lovely, reddish hue!

Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy (and TP for inspiring me to try again).

Looking great TP! I must try it again soon. I think the key must be to have it wet and well sealed. I think my loaf was too dry and therefore it didn't want to seal well. Will try again soon though!

Jake

Here she is...a 5-grain loaf (spelt, wholemeal, rye, oat, millet, black rice...oops, looks like 6-grain). I proved it seam at the bottom. When I flipped it over for the oven, I found that my seams have just about all disappeared as the dough was pretty wet. I gave it some small (help) slashes close to the hairline cracks. Not a very clear pix with such a dark loaf...but I think I got it...albeit with some cheaty help.

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/7903-2/5graincrack.jpg[/img]


What your looking for is to get a regular shaped boule(round) then just do the opposite and place it in the banneton with the "key" (seam) side down rather than up, you need to get the boule tighter and well sealed for a volcano look!

Cheers

Will try this today.


Who knows how to get the free-form cracking effect?? Anyone? What are the exact steps for that?
I tried googling to figure it out, but couldn't find any info. on it.

(Jeremy: any feedback for me? What'd I do wrong?)

Thanks,
Jake

Hey Jake,

Looks rustic allright!!

In a way, it looks pretty darn interesting.. Who knows, you may have kick started a whole new movement of bread finishing!!

In the meantime, maybe next time, bake with seam down

Happy baking

Roland

Dear Danubian,

Sure, I'm not one of your well doing apprentices. Mostly because of my lack of obedience. But I do my best to follow your advice. This time I used my right hand like you've told me. There was only a very small hurting of the surface... but it worked out beautiful and only showed the strength of the pressure inside...

This time I wanted still more rye: 90%. And there is an abundance of semolina in my kitchen. So I used this for "hard wheat", the word "durum" suggests something hard some how

:D

Well I've learned from Carla who grinds her durum grain by herself, that durum needs time, much time an water to build crumb. So I wasted no thought of putting dry semolina in my final dough, no, I gave it completely to my sourdough, fed the starter with a calculated mix... rye and semolina. This is only for the crumb and the beauty of the possible colour.

Now proudly presenting in oversize (cutting not before the following 48 hours... )

:o

[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/8649-2/90+10.jpg[/img]

Skua


[quote="Skua"]
This time I wanted still more rye: 90%. And there is an abundance of semolina in my kitchen. So I used this for "hard wheat", the word "durum" suggests something hard some how

:D

Well I've learned from Carla who grinds her durum grain by herself, that durum needs time, much time an water to build crumb. So I wasted no thought of putting dry semolina in my final dough, no, I gave it completely to my sourdough, fed the starter with a calculated mix... rye and semolina. This is only for the crumb and the beauty of the possible colour.

Now proudly presenting in oversize (cutting not before the following 48 hours... )

:o

[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/8649-2/90+10.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Well done, Michael. You've really made progress, the volume appears excellent and you've definitely got the cracking you were looking for. I'd be interested to see the internal structure. When you deem it ready for cutting please take a picture?

You've done the right thing by allowing the semolina to soak as long as possible. BTW it appears you've got the finished dough temperature (FDT) spot on. It shows by the fact that your loaf has a finer network of truly random cracking, well done!

BTW Conversely, when the FDT is too cool - usually due to refrigerated sourdough - the cracking does not spread evenly on the whole surface and tends to be very deep, and unattractive indeed. If, for what ever reason the FDT is too cool then longer bulk fermentation will help to offset this and enable a better result. But for the best results correct temperatures are imperative.

Thank you, Danubian!

I owe you something! Here are the crumb shots!

[img]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Eisflieger/crumb90.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Eisflieger/rye.jpg[/img]

Skua

:D


Something about the flours. And a personal view concerning the taste.

The challenging thing in making rye for the beginner is: don't loose shape! Make it strong! Go beyond the final frontier, try a higher percentage, to boldly go where no loaf has gone before

:geek:

:lol:

:lol:

:lol:

So this time I used the lightest rye available without driving to the next mill. Rye type 997. That means: half of the outer shell of the grain is removed and meant to feed the cattle. Hey we all are healthy, it is not that what I wanted to ask...

It is the taste. My first try with the vulcanic look I used whole rye, with a soaker grinded by my self. The baking of such a dough produces clouds of overwhelming scent. Without exaggeration! And the taste is outstanding. This was the crumb of my 80 %

[img]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Eisflieger/crumb80.jpg[/img]

Not really even, but I loved its colour and its taste. Now to the new thing, you see a post above, 90%, wow... It looks more civilized, I admit that. But the taste on my tongue is not better, a bit dryness, the colour in my eyes is "nice" but...

Well I think the real challenge is to find out the most tasty mixture. Maybe its only 30% rye but whole rye. Percentages as numbers doesn' t matter. My target is: to find the taste I'm missing since years. What mixture could that be?

:?

Or do I have to change it always up and down? No idea

:|

Skua


Hey Doc!
Those look good whatever percentage, though I am converted to the all rye loaves no matter how awful my versions are! Today I am making a Tiroler Landbrot from Dieter's site!
Will post and give some descriptions later, maybe make a post on my site, going where no baker in the US has gone before!

Jeremy

[quote="Jeremy"] ...Tiroler Landbrot... going where no baker in the US has gone before! ....Jeremy[/quote]

A loaf! I wonder if you ever visited Tirol, this new loaf on your side doesn't look like a boulder from Tirol to me.

Perhaps from Iceland, or Greenland a long time ago?

The first baker in the US going very far was.. I think it was a viking, the chef on board, in the ship of Leif Ericcson. He did the first step onto a new world. As the most important member of the first landing party he had a mission. To feed his hungry homesick crew. He built a primitive oven, and he created a loaf that reminded the men of the volcanic surface of the land they came from.

:mrgreen:


You know doctor Spock!
Yeah haven't been to the Tirol yet! Alps yes, anyway I don't understand it the recipe was quite easy to comprehend, though I googled Tirolean landbrot and the thing was filled with holes like it was docked rather than slashed? Don't know but it tasted good, a deep taste, check it out on my site if you like!

Jeremy

[quote="Skua"]Something about the flours. And a personal view concerning the taste.

The challenging thing in making rye for the beginner is: don't loose shape! Make it strong! Go beyond the final frontier, try a higher percentage, to boldly go where no loaf has gone before

:geek:

:lol:

:lol:

:lol:

So this time I used the lightest rye available without driving to the next mill. Rye type 997. That means: half of the outer shell of the grain is removed and meant to feed the cattle. Hey we all are healthy, it is not that what I wanted to ask...

It is the taste. My first try with the vulcanic look I used whole rye, with a soaker grinded by my self. The baking of such a dough produces clouds of overwhelming scent. Without exaggeration! And the taste is outstanding. This was the crumb of my 80 %

Not really even, but I loved its colour and its taste. Now to the new thing, you see a post above, 90%, wow... It looks more civilized, I admit that. But the taste on my tongue is not better, a bit dryness, the colour in my eyes is "nice" but...

Well I think the real challenge is to find out the most tasty mixture. Maybe its only 30% rye but whole rye. Percentages as numbers doesn' t matter. My target is: to find the taste I'm missing since years. What mixture could that be?

:?

Or do I have to change it always up and down? No idea

:|

[/quote]

Michael, thanks for those pictures of the bread crumb, they look just fine in my opinion. I say that not on the basis of the crumb colour, but from a structural point of view. I believe you're correct, generally speaking, a very low extraction rate rye bread hasn't the same aromatic character as one with a higher extraction. Now you have to combine the good external characteristics with the aroma and flavour of the first.

I mentioned before that I make this bread from a higher extraction flour also and it has a better aromatic and flavour profile than the lighter bread, but the lighter is also acceptable - it's different!

I hope you keep notes of all you make so you are able to repeat the best results. I keep everything recorded; hey, I even keep a fishing diary!!

[quote="Danubian"]...
I hope you keep notes of all you make so you are able to repeat the best results. I keep everything recorded; hey, I even keep a fishing diary!![/quote]
Oh yes, of course. It is just like offshore fishing

:D

... At first I listen to the meteorological forecast, then I check my handbooks, mostly using several sources, calculate my coordinates, check the equipment, request for the allowance to leave...

and I always keep my log book! Odd, my notes are kept in English the last days... perhaps I'm loosing my orientation in German home baking ...

:mrgreen:

[img]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Eisflieger/aufzeichnungenweb-1.jpg[/img]

By the going off topic: sure you've some amazing pics of your fishing adventures? Are you a reefer at the north coast?

Skua

:o


[quote="Skua"]By the going off topic: sure you've some amazing pics of your fishing adventures? Are you a reefer at the north coast?[/quote]

I prefer to fish rivers, have a look [url=http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/plutrach/?action=view&current=marapool.jpg][b]here[/b][/url]

This is what I found in the water [url=http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/plutrach/?action=view&current=CRW_2363.jpg][b]here[/b][/url]

My brother does that in Colorado! Catches salmon when he goes to the wilds of Oregon!

Jeremy

[quote="Jeremy"]My brother does that in Colorado! Catches salmon when he goes to the wilds of Oregon!
[/quote]

Perhaps you could have some brotherly bonding time .... in Oregon?!

I'd love to fish some of those beautiful rivers in Oregon.

I already bonded on a river in Colorado on slippery rocks and frigid water! As well rode to 10,000 feet into the mountains and back down in a violent storm with hail and lightining! That was bonding!
My brother went to the most remote and natural park called Niha (spell check) ate bluberry pie with a crust made from bear fat! That park was where the Nez Perce where from, he said it's awesome, real nature raw!

Jeremy

Salmons and bears…

You both live on the other side of another planet, definitely. Salmons and mussels was the everyday dish for my Rhineland ancestors 100 years ago. And we shot the last bear 200 years ago. Well, we are setting out thousands of salmons in the Rhine everywhere, every year. They should conquer their old origins again…Guess this is politics to calm us brave citizens. In fact it seems to be hard for them to go upstream, maybe they become a bit too heavy with all the cadmium and lead inside their bellies. And the cooling systems of our nukes keep the river warm and therefore short of oxygen, especially in summer.

The heraldic animal of my city - K-town - is a trout. As I was a boy I tried to catch wild ones in a small stream with my hand. Today they are all save from children. We keep them in farms to remember our history.

Skua


[quote="Jeremy"]I already bonded on a river in Colorado on slippery rocks and frigid water! As well rode to 10,000 feet into the mountains and back down in a violent storm with hail and lightining! That was bonding!
My brother went to the most remote and natural park called Niha (spell check) ate bluberry pie with a crust made from bear fat! That park was where the Nez Perce where from, he said it's awesome, real nature raw!

Jeremy[/quote]

LOL, sounds like you had a great time, eh? Mountain weather and conditions can be mercurial.

I love the beauty of temperate forests and rivers as well as fishing there, but I have to admit as far as really roughing it I'm a little too comfortable with most modern comforts. I can handle camping for a couple of weeks provided I'm well equiped. I suppose the truth is we can cope with amazingly adverse conditions but why be a glutton for punishment?!

I couldn't resist having a go at this fabulous looking Rye. I forgot to add the 20% Baker's Flour so mine ended up being close to 100% Rye. I started by gradually adding more rye into the feed flour to train my starter to Rye over 2 days. 
For the final dough mix I used 80% Organic Stone-Ground Rye and 20% light Rye.

I followed Danubian's advice and baked a little longer and while the end result is not exactly the same, I did get the cracking effect - just not as much as I would have liked. Next time I will try using 80% rye. Maybe the addition of BF will give more expansion during proofing to get the wider cracks.
Anyway I can't wait to try this bread. I am trying to be patient and leave this bread to sit for 24 hours to stabilise the crumb.. but damn it's hard :( 





Finally I just had to cut it open after 18 hours and it looks and tastes pretty bloody good...