Panettone for you guy's!


Levain:ferment 27-29c 4 hours
flour 22grams
water 11grams

First dough:230g flour
4.6 grams malt
103grams water
2grams yeast
55grams butter softened
45grams sugar
34grams egg yolk

Final dough: 51grams flour
71grams water
78grams butter
51grams sugar
12grams honey
16grams egg yolks
79grams candied lemon peel
21grams orange zest

Chocolate glaze (optional)
sugar 43 grams
almond meal 22grams
vegetable oil 3grams
corn flour 3grams
cocoa powder 3grams
egg white 25grams
water 2grams
vanilla bean scraped

First dough:incorporate all ingredients in mixer 1st speed 4=5 minutes,2nd speed 2-3 minutes(medium soft dough no gluten development) ferment 22-23c 12-16 hours
final dough: Incorporate flour, first dough, zest,yolks, vanilla been seeds, and half the water in mixer, 1st speed 3=4 minutes,2nd speed 2 minutesto develop gluten,Add half the sugar,mix two minutes 2nd speed add remaining sugarand mix a bit more,Add the softened butter 2nd speed til incorporated ,Add honey and remaining water in 1st speed until well mixed add raisins and citrus peel in 1st speed.
Divide into 500g;preshape into balls, Shape on buttered surface 20 minutes rest, Shape into tight ballls place in molds.
Proof:24=25c 4-6 hours. Dogh should reach 2cm below top of mold.
Finish: slash cross in top place pat of butter in opening,
Finish: Spread thin layer of glaze on top, sprinkle with almonds , pearl sugar, and dust with layer of icing sugarto form crisp top (optional)

Bake: 163 c for 35 minutes cool upside down in molds 4 hours!

Glaze: Combine dry ingredientsin bowl,Gradually blend in oil and eggs to form smooth glaze,Addd water mix till smooth.



Thanks Jeremy for the recipe. It is getting towards that time of year, plus my chickens have provided me with a few eggs, so I have been turning my thoughts to trying it.

I would prefer to make a Pannetone without yeast, so have used Mick's recipe.
It being the festive season I thought I would have a go at a naturally leavened pannetone recipe that Jack Lang posted on the brick oven forum several months ago. It comes from ?Cresci ? The Art of Leavened Dough? by Iginio Massari and Achille Zoia. Jack scaled it down from 20 kilos to 2 kilos and I halved it down to about 1 kilo.

It wasn?t exactly a failure ? it came out light and tasted delicious ? but it didn?t behave the way Jack would have expected it to. Plus I don?t have any benchmarks to judge it by.

First Dough

Starter 50g
Flour 200g
Sugar 62g
Butter 72g
Water 65g
Egg Yolk 70g

Mix until smooth: prove until tripled (10-12 hours) ? says Jack. I proved it overnight and although it moved, it didn?t look very active so I left it ?til about midday.

Second Dough: all the first plus

Flour 50g
Egg Yolk 64g
Sugar 50g
Honey 12g
Butter 77g
Salt 4g
Water 35g
Sultanas 100g
Candied Peel 115g

Jack, who was talking about 2 kilos of dough, says, ?Mix gently; divide and prove at 28C for 40 mins; put into cylindrical paper moulds; prove at 32C for 6-7 hours or until the dough reaches the top of the mould.

For a 1Kg pannetone bake 50 mins at 170C/350F; 2Kg 90 mins at 160C/325F
Once baked the pannetone will be 5-6 times its original size.?

Well, if you?d seen me in contortions spending an hour trying to make paper moulds you?d have been well entertained. In the end I used a 17cm cake tin with a tinfoil extention. I skipped the 40 mins at 28C and let it prove in the tin at room temperature (20-22C ish) from midday until evening. As it looked very sluggish I left it overnight by which time it was about an inch above the tin, and baked it at 7.00 a.m. for 50 mins as above.

As you can see it was nowhere near 5-6 times its original size and it probably could have done with another 10 mins in the oven.

Any thoughts?

This was my first try


I had a similar experience to Mick, with a veeeery slow and sluggish 1st dough. I used timings almost identical to Mick's. My 2nd dough had done very little over 8 or 10 hours, so I left it overnight, hoping that it would do its thing. In the morning I found that it was still only half way up the baking tin, and a long way short of the collar of paper that I had optimistically made for it.
I baked it anyway, thinking that it would turn into a brick, in which case the chooks could have it back.


it obviously didn't turn into a brick, and in fact is quite light, and very flavoursome. (I can only imagine how light it might have been if it had increased in volume 6 fold...)

I am not sure where I went wrong.
I wonder if my starter just ran shrieking from all the fat and sugar in the dough.
Another recipe that I plan to try (for Pandoro - in Maggie Glezer's Artisan Baking), has much less butter/sugar in the first dough, which she maintains allows the starter to do its stuff before the 'inhibitors' are added. I wonder if something similar would work here. Alternatively I have thought about trying something that Dan Lepard had once suggested - adding a small amount of sugar to starter refreshments so that it gets used to a more sugary dough.
what do others think?

(I wonder if this thread will turn into a Panettone challenge - anyone out there feeling inspired?)


Will have to wait another week.


I wish you success

Very Happy

J, your pans is very easy ..try this one:

[url=]Praparation of lievito naturale(levain)[/url]


Maybe I could send a care package of some from King Arthur?


Darn. The man brought the wrong barley! I suspect they don't have it and thought I really wanted pearl barley. Will have to wait another week.


Unhusked I hope?
I tried the other regular store bought and just got nasty rot, barley shoots looked sick!

Whew 80% that is hot for Panettone!

Fixed it!


Tks, Mr Fixit! I'm getting some sprouting barley tomorrow. If my malting job is successful, I'll give this one a go.

Already sprouted?

cool, how humid is it there now?

No, no...I'll be getting the barley tomorrow.

Humidity is around 80%.

Tks, Jeremy. But, to me, that's completely undecipherable. Would be easier to read if you lose some columns of % since our posts cannot be presented in a table form.

If you have no objection, can I request for the title to be changed to Panettone (and Pandoro) Bake-off? I'll definitely be making a couple of these together with lots of stollen to be given as gifts. Anyone else? I've an inkling Dom will be reporting in. ;)

Cheers (and I really mean it!)


I hadn't forgotten,

here is this year's effort.

I used a recipe that Dan gave out at his Melbourne Italian baking class 18 months ago - giving a fantastically flavoured Panettone.
I made a couple in pyrex jugs (nice and tall and not too wide) and about 8 mini panettone in a muffin tin
Like previous times I found that the first dough (primo impasto) rose fine, but that the second was very sluggish. I added a tiny amount of fresh yeast, but the rise was still less that I hoped.
I think that the proving temperature is probably crucial for this cake, and I just don't have anywhere warm enough in the house

Tasty and popular, but I have more work to do for next year...


Thanks, Dom!

I'll be making mine for the New Year. Hope it turns out as beautiful as yours.

"Happy New Year to All!"

Recipe here 

Happy holidays and new year!

In your own words, that really looks "achingly tender"!!! Well done!

Off to make starter...


what a fantastic looking Panettone!
I am very impressed.

It makes my little efforts look seriously dense.

I don't think I am going to manage one for New Years, but I will have to give your recipe a try when I get a chance. I have bookmarked your post.

I too make my Panettone by hand (or with what Bill used to call the 10 pronged mixer)!


I made a panettone too. NOT!! Made 3/4 of FP's recipe and I solemnly pronounce it a good one despite my efforts. Go for it!


Thanks for the comments!

TP - Still looks plenty edible to me- Panettone bread and butter pudding perhaps?   Hope you found the recipe relatively easy to work with.



As good as any commercial versions I have seen!  Thanks for the new recipe post FP!  I will have to try it out soon!

Glad to see you here! 


You really are what you eat, so eat wisely...

As a kind of follow-on from the panettone, I made a pandoro. 
Recipe here.
Happy New Year!


both your pannetone and your pandoro are extraordinary.

Some of the readers of this thread may not realise just how hard it is to make breads/cakes like that. I have tried on multiple occasions to make Pannetone, and had a couple of goes at Pandoro, but never come close to your impressive results.
I gave your Pannetone recipe a try, figuring that perhaps the 4 hour refreshments of the starter would help. Although I had a little more luck than TP, the results were very similar to my previous experience  - a tasty but dense fruit cake.

The main problem that I have always found with this bread is that the 2nd dough fails to rise. I usually can get a good rise in the first dough, but the final dough with all its fat, eggs, and sugar resolutely refuses to rise as it is supposed to. Far from 'tripling' in size as you suggest, I am lucky if I get a 50% increase in 8 hours or more.
I had wondered previously if the problem is getting the proving temperature right. I still don't know how to get and keep the dough at 80-85F as you suggest. (Perhaps you have a proving box?) I used my oven at its lowest possible setting and the door open (turned off if the temperature started to get too warm), but it is hard to get it right.
The other thing I found impossible with your recipe was the final handling of the dough. You suggested rounding and shaping into boules. But the final consistency of the dough was an ultra-moist glop, like a thick batter. There was no way on earth that it was going to be shaped into anything except the container into which it was spooned. I don't know whether the Canadian flour/00 flour mix that you use is more absorbent, giving you a lower effective hydration.

Anyway - thanks for sharing your efforts - they are inspiring (if at the same time a little disheartening to lesser mortals)


Hi Dom

I understand completely where you're coming from regarding panettone and pandoro. It took me four months to get to a stage where I felt I was in control of the dough (a lot of flops in that time).

If I had to summarise, in a word, the problems that are most commonly encountered with panettone, it would have to be - gluten. Either developing gluten too early or not developing enough will produce a less satisfactory crumb and also affect the dough's rising time/ability.

You mentioned a batter-like consistency which, to me, would indicate you're dealing with one of the most common problems: adding sugar too rapidly. If you're mixing by hand then 1 or 2 tsp at a time is pretty much the limit in my opinion. If the dough starts to feel like it's having trouble at any time - just walk away and let it rest for 10 or 15 minutes before coming back to it. Resting rather than intensive kneading is not only easier on the forearm but also good for gluten development in this case. Once you get the right dough development, I suspect your rising and shaping problems will also be resolved. (Shape on a well-floured surface)

If you are in doubt about the mix of flours, go for 100% strong bread flour. The 00 flour adds a certain lightness to the crumb but should not be confused for 00 pasta flour which would not be at all suitable in the recipe.

As for proofing temperature, I've been told that leaving the light on in the oven can give you close to 80F. By extension, I imagine that any enclosed space with a lamp would also work. In my case, thanks to a broken radiator, my current winter heating comes from a fan heater which I leave on a higher-than-normal setting, leaving my room plenty warm for proofing.  You don't want to exceed the upper 85F limit or you may get excess lactic acid  build-up in the dough (and the butter may start melting)

I hope that helps.