The Baguette Bake-off

Why not lets do a contest!

  • 350g size or 60 g petite bags
  • 270 flour (type 55 if you got it)
  • 45 grams corn flour (fine mill)
  • 2gram yeast (optional if you think your levain is forte!)
  • 5grams salt
  • 40 pre-fermented dough or if you like adjust this mess to a levain baguette, we retarded the shaped breads over night 12 hours!

happy baking if your sad, well get to the oven and jump in!
Jeremy

250 comments

This is cool, Dan, who else is going too show up I wonder?
Dan or anyone? I am about to throw in my retarded dough(sticks, baguette au levain) should I give them time to warm up?Before tossing them in, otherwise I won't post the mess?

Jeremy

Dear Markus

Would appreciate if you could let us oogle-boogle on a bigger image. One less step for my lazy clicky fingers.

Your starter is shouting at you to start mixing.


Thanks, Jack. That certainly convinced me to have a go at your latest formula.


Excellent thread.

Jack, could the Vit C be dropped considerably from a gram to 400g flour to, say, 0.10g and still produce the effect you want? Given that its role would be to oxidise and aid gluten formation, a gram sounds like a lot. Great loaf. I do wonder whether the plain flour has higher natural sugars and helps longer fermentation, as the crust colour is very reddish for a long-time dough (though part might be a degradation of the starch on the crust).

Sourdough.com.au is such a remarkable forum because of the pictures, because it isn't just text-based, as sourdough is all about responding to visible changes in the leaven and final dough structure. Threads like this make great bread easier to achieve.

regards

Dan

(yes, dom rattled my cage and told me about this thread)


[quote="SourDom"]
it is a beautiful looking baguette, I am interested that you have moved to a more french-style firm starter, and then used a period of autolysis with the premix. What do you think the effect is on the recipe?

cheers
Dom
[/quote]

The move to a firm (50% hydration) preferment came from a hint in "Handbook of Dough Fermentation" edited by Karel Kulp and Klaus Lorenz ISBN 0-8247-4264-8 .In the chapter by Martinez-Anaya it says

"Firmness of dough guarantees a greater contribution of lactobacilli to the whole flavour profile. In soft doughs, ethanol and ethyl acetate are predominant, with high levels of isoalcohols considered a consequence of yeast activity that developed more in the presence of homofermentative species due to the lower concentrations of acetic acid generated. Tough [stiff] doughs differ in ester composition; ethyl acetate in heterofermentative sour doughs and carbonyl's in homofermentative ones are more abundant in softer doughs"

In the chapter by Poitrenaud on Commercial starters in France it puts it more simply:

"A firm sourdough...encourages the production of acetic acid over lactic acid (stronger acid flavour)"

Anyway, I tried it and prefer the flavour. I believe the main flavour profile is developed in the preferment rather than in the dough fermentation, which is more about texture. The overall formula is not changed, just some of the water moved from the preferment to the dough.
I'd appreciate comments on this from the experienced bakers in this group.

I find the stiffer preferment easier to handle for my method. However the preferment is too stiff to be easily kneaded in, or to use the stretch and fold method - you would just end up with a laminated dough, like some of those Asian pastries made with two different doughs laminated together.

I hate the term autolysis in this context, and I don't think that is what is happening here. Autolysis implies enzymatic cell breakdown from the enzymes contained within the cell (hence the auto part), typical of yeast decomposition. No yeast, no enzymes here - it is white flour with very little enzymes (high falling number) and no added malt, wheatgerm or fungal amylase. I think the main effect is additional time for the flour to hydrate without being affected by the acid or enzymes in the sourdough, and for the vitamin C to oxidise the gluten. Note I add the salt at the beginning - leaving until the final mix doesn't seem to make any difference and its easier to forget it then. I suspect I could leave out the Vitamin C, but I've not tried that yet. The flour does not have any in it from the manufacturer.

The final change is the hour or two's bulk fermentation, rather than shaping immediately. I think this is the most significant change, and comes from a hint in Stan Cauvain and Linda Young's book on the Chorleywood Bread Process (ISBN 0-8493 9131-8 ) In the formula for French Sticks he says

"The typical French bread structure can be achieved by the correct dough development, and gentle dough manipulation ... If mixed under atmospheric pressure, the first proof time may be extended...to promote the large open-cell structure required by this product"

So it proves. I've paraphrased the quotation as we are using sourdough rather than yeast, so the timings are different.

[quote="carla"]
The mind boggles...
[/quote]

So let it boogle...boogle booogle..

TP..take a little look close to Basel, there are some little places no one knows by name (har har har...)

Jeremy, first I come from Dortmund, the German Beer Capitol, where "Export" was created and still one of the best beers of the world is still produced: Brinkhoff No 1.
Due to the efforts of the sourcountry breweries

Razz

Razz

Razz

like Warstein, Veltins e.t.c and espaccialy the Bavarian Wheat sorts most of the regional breweries have died, in Wuppervalley there is no brewery any more

Crying or Very sad

[img]http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/traurig/a045.gif[/img][img]http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/traurig/a025.gif[/img]

Levain ready, poolish overready..the weather is too fine..as poolish is in fridge I do the same with levain..
[url=http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict1530on2.jpg][img]http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2164/pict1530on2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[quote="Croc"]
worst of all is that i have to eat bread from coles :O
..... it could be all this chemicals in supermarket breads that make him unstable
[/quote]

Take a sec and do some planning. You're not inspired by Dom? You can make these...your son's rehabilitation depends on it! All the best to the biz of the house sale/building!


BTW, Dom, did the bottoms split and crack this time?


just got to say WOW for jacklang crumb texture and that is with low protein flour

Shocked

Bake Me !

[quote="TeckPoh"]
Were you a Saarbrückener?

Razz

[/quote]
[quote="Jeremy"]
Frieburg Im Briesgau?
[/quote]

More to the south,
the west is ok

Razz

wow, great job everyone, i'm so hungry after reading this thread
sadly i got no time for anything but you can be sure to see my regular spam come back in a while.
right now i'm selling my house while building new one near the beach (aussie friends might know area called 90milebeach)
but i be lurking here all the time.
worst of all is that i have to eat bread from coles :O
and i don't know if it is related but for last few weeks my son is out of control and i think it could be all this chemicals in supermarket breads that make him unstable

Sad

, well i got to point at something because sure as hell it isn't because of bad parenting

Laughing

Bake Me !

Beautiful, as always, Jack. And, you used pastry flour?


thanks TP - thats a lot of exclamation marks!

Jack - you provided the inspiration for this thread, so it is great to see your contribution.

it is a beautiful lookuing baguette, I am interested that you have moved to a more french-style firm starter, and then used a period of autolysis with the premix. What do you think the effect is on the recipe?

If my family hasn't overdosed on baguettes I will give your recipe a try during the week

cheers
Dom


Thought I would add the ones I made today

These are 100% sourdough

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4942-1/DSC02727c.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4944-1/DSC02728c.jpg[/img]

Plain organic supermarket flour (9.8% protein) (pastry flour)

Sponge:
200g flour
100g water
10 g mother

Ferment for 12 hours

Pre-mix:
400g flour
1g Vit C
12 g Salt
320g water

Rough mix and leave for an hour

Dough
Mix intensively the flour and the premix. I use a food processor, but I guess you can use a mixer, mixing until the dough picks up and then releases - almost overmixed.
Probably too tough to mix my hand.

Bench rest (bulk ferment) 1 hour
Shape and put in a couche. Retard (refrigerator) overnight Bake hot, plenty of bottom heat and steam in the first minute.

Dom, that's just gorgeous!! And the grigne! And your photography!

lol....re: your acknowledgment to the gentlemen who had influence on your bread.


if Jeremy has to finish the miche before he is allowed to bake again he may be out of action for a few days...

PS the miche looks gorgeous J


Thanks Dom, it tastes good too, made a chicken sandwich with lettuce, cornichon , tomatoes and some great mustard I got in Europe!
Actually I am baking some poppyseed loaves and making danish pastry for breakfast, maybe we should do a different contest?

Jeremy
P.S. I gave half the Miche to a friend who has a restaurant!

No worry alway's ready to bake!

tipping point this morning.

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4931-2/DSCN1530.JPG[/img]

This was the wholemeal recipe that I used a few days back for grissini

(It is a converted version of a Carol Field 'the italian baker' recipe)

100g starter (50%)
116g water (58%)
3g malt (1.5%)
60g wm flour (30%)
140g white flour (70%)
4g salt (2%)
15g olive oil (7.5%)
5g vegetable shortening (2.5%)

mixed (Dan Lepard), proved for a couple of hours (2 folds) then in the fridge for most of the day
Shaped (Jack Lang) then put in the fridge on a tea towel couche overnight
This morning stretched (bethesdabaker), slashed (J Hamelman) and baked from cold

grignes were much better after reading Jeffrey Hamelman's instructions

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4934-2/DSCN1532.JPG[/img]
[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4937-2/DSCN1533.JPG[/img]

and the crumb - soft and moderately open for a wholemeal (30%) loaf
very very tasty!

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4940-2/DSCN1536.JPG[/img]

I have a bit of a surfeit of bread in the house so I may have to slow down! (yesterday I also baked a sourdough hybrid version of Dan Lepard's chelsea buns)

cheers
Dom


Practice baby, practice! Taut indeed?!!!!

Such wording?

jejejjeejjjjejejeejjeje!

Jeremy

Dom said:

[quote]
What sort of flour did you use?

how much stretching did you do when they came out of the fridge?
Did you bake on a metal oven tray, or a stone, or the bottom of the oven (old oven I imagine)
How did you stop the buggers bulging or exploding when baking from cold??
[/quote]

It would have been Doves Farm Organic Strong Bread Flour which is standard good quality Brit bread flour, about 11 - 12% protein, i.e what I use for everything. It would have been the old gas oven.

I roll out the baguettes a little short of the width of the baking sheets, improvise couches using tea towels, whack them in the fridge. Then in the morning I ease them off the tea towels, stretch them to the width of the baking sheets - only 1- 1.5" - slash them and into the oven - nothing clever.

When I run out of paint I'll give it a go again.

Best wishes,

Mick

Wow, lots of great ideas in this thread! Oatbran. Cracked Wheat.

Yes, thanks, Mick. I must have missed that thread. Lovely bags.

Jeremy, I wish I can slash like you! Just gorgeous. And, I can see how nice and taut your bread was shaped.


[img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/jergra/CIMG1548.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/jergra/CIMG1549-1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/jergra/CIMG1550.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/jergra/CIMG1551.jpg[/img]
I just added my Miche hand shaping and a little view with my baguette made with d'epautre(spelt)!
Analysis: the dough is rustic and has some relatively tight crumb but a nice crust! Could of made them bigger and the shape with more torpedoed ends with polka cut.
Will try another when I get a minute, or finish the Miche!

Jeremy

Normbake

very different baguettes. It looks like you had some whole grains in there, as well as wheatgerm on the top?
Your slashing style looks a bit like Carla's. Unconventional but effective.

cheers
Dom


Hi TP I used oatbran and crackedwheat in the dough.
I dusted the top of the doughs with cornmeal but it made it quite hard to cut I won't do that again.
I made up some couches out of some 90 mm pipe a while ago it was the first time I used them.
Normbake
[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4927-3/100_2861.JPG[/img]

Mick,

lovely looking bags. I'd forgotten seeing them on DL's site a while back.

What sort of flour did you use?

how much stretching did you do when they came out of the fridge?
Did you bake on a metal oven tray, or a stone, or the bottom of the oven (old oven I imagine)
How did you stop the buggers bulging or exploding when baking from cold??

Dom


Were you a Saarbrückener?

Razz


[quote="carla"]
[quote="TeckPoh"][quote="carla"]
I came origianally from the [b]southernmost, westernmost little city[/b] in Germany.
[/quote]

I love riddles! More little hints, please.[/quote]

Well you do not really need any more hints TP.
You've got 2 co-ordinates now.
So go looking.

Smile

[/quote]

Frieburg Im Briesgau?

Jeremy

Update!
Second go on baguettes, today's flavor d'epautre(spelt, dinkel)
this formula was not your average, I crunched the numbers Mick styled it, and then realized I was making a wonderful roasted chicken with 40 cloves of garlic, ratatouille,roasted potatoes and salad de jardin! Bottle of wonderful Chinon I brought back I polished off while dough's (making Miche in honour of Micks return, ask him to bake, he yearns it like a toddler yearns his mothers breast!)were rising, boom in went the baguettes, I made them small, maybe too? will post pics when I see some natural light(TP thanks for the snap tips, aren't you going to be a swell food journalist one of these day's!)
Miche just hit the deck and looks promising, cross your fingers!

Ta! Jeremy

[quote="TeckPoh"]
[quote="carla"]
I came origianally from the [b]southernmost, westernmost little city[/b] in Germany.
[/quote]

I love riddles! More little hints, please.[/quote]

Well you do not really need any more hints TP.
You've got 2 co-ordinates now.
So go looking.

Smile

[quote="carla"]
I came origianally from the southernmost, westernmost little city in Germany. Now here is a riddle!

Razz

And our local beer was very excellent (if I may say so - even if the English is bad).
[/quote]

I love riddles! More little hints, please.


On another thread Dom said:

[quote]
welcome back. perhaps we could convince you to share your baguette expertise in the great baguette bake-off ?
[/quote]

and Teck Poh said:

[quote]
Mick! If you're baking anything, why not baguettes?
[/quote]

Well, thanks for the invite. Ironically, after three months teaching other people to bake I've hardly baked anything myself, the brain's turned to jelly and, instead of baking this weekend, I'm under orders to PAINT THE KITCHEN.

Like Dom I think Dan's white leaven bread makes great baguettes especially proved overnight in the fridge. I don't do anything subtle like compensation for using 100% hydration starter. They go straight from the fridge into the oven. Give them a little stretch before they go in to elongate the gas bubbles.

Here, as they say, is one I made earlier:

[url]http://www.danlepard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3483#3483[/url]

I'll try and get out more often.

Best wishes to you all - even if you Antipodeans are heading into Spring while we are going downhill into Winter.

Mick

[quote="SourDom"]
[snip] I haven't got the aesthetics right yet, and still haven't got close to Jack's crumb.

Dom
[/quote]

Yoooohooooooo......Jack!?


Oh my! Markus baking for us??? Pix to zoom into the crumb, ja?

Tks for the crumb colour comment. Noted.

Wink


Hey, [b]Normbake[/b]...nice to see you joining in the fun. Do give us some details. Is this wholemeal?

I'd love to try wholemeal or spelt baguettes next.

[b]Dom[/b]: Love your pix...yup, [size=24]Z[/size][size=24]OO[/size][size=24]oo[/size][size=18]OO[/size]oom in. And...thanks for saying I'm 'nice and soft'.

Wink

Not sure what good crust means?


[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4912-4/100_2860.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4917-3/100_2862.JPG[/img]

Some pics of my baggettes
Normbake

[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4914-3/100_2858.JPG[/img]

Cheers Normbake

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4911-3/100_2860.JPG[/img]

Normbake

Laughing

[quote="Jeremy"]
Which city? I lived in Stutgart, my local brew was Stuttgarter Hofbrau,
[/quote]

Well if I tell you my origins it wouldn't be a riddle any more would it?
Whats wrong with google??

I studied in Stuttgart-Hohenheim where all the good sourdough research is made!!

Could it be that "Labekase" is Leberkaese?
If yes - very nice stuff - as long as you do not think about what is in it!!

[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4908-1/DSCN1529.JPG[/img]

this was the same formula as the last one

[quote]
So for 2 baguettes

100g starter (40%)
153g water (61%)
5g ground malt (2%)
250g flour (100%)(Kialla unbleached white 11.8g protein)
5g salt (2%)
[/quote]

but using organic plain flour (white wings) with 10.8g protein

I'm not sure how much difference the flour made
The dough didn't have a period of cold fermentation this time, so no blisters like TPs.
The slashes worked better (new razor blade), but the big split on the base was disappointing.

like TP, crumb nice and soft, with a good crust. I haven't got the aesthetics right yet, and still haven't got close to Jack's crumb.

next try: wholemeal baguettes (a la grissini)

Dom


Which city? I lived in Stutgart, my local brew was Stuttgarter Hofbrau, of course when I headed down to my Dad's village in allgau, there were some excellent biers there too to be drunk as well some delicious food like Labekase in Wangen!

Jeremy

[quote="Jeremy"]
Carla be nice, he is from [b]Woopietall[/b] or something?
Do they have good beer in that region? I am a southern German beer purest snob!
[/quote]

Yeah he is tall (if that is really HIM on that avatar!) and he does whoopies every so often ...

Razz

Or did you mean Wuppertal? Which means the valley where the wupper (river) is flowing through. No idea about his beers though.
I came origianally from the southernmost, westernmost little city in Germany. Now here is a riddle!

Razz

And our local beer was very excellent (if I may say so - even if the English is bad).

Yeah Markus your bread looks good in the gallery, lets get you into the ring for a spar!

Carla be nice, he is from Woopietall or something?
Do they have good beer in that region? I am a southern German beer purest snob!

Jeremy

[quote="bianchifan"]
Just now I startet spelt levain, poolish will follow later..

Very Happy

recipe is similar to Luc Boulet's, a frech boulanger teacher.
[/quote]
You are going to bake for us

Question

Question

Question

[size=7]incredulous look on face[/size]

[quote="bianchifan"]
The only difference is using 630 spalt insteadf of 550 wheat, but it contains 1150 rye, this is what I have at home

Very Happy

It's not original, [b]Luc has accommodated his recipe to germen flour sorts.[/b]
[/quote]
The mind boggles...

TP!

[/quote] Jeremy, you baked baguettes again, right?[/quote]

Later when I go home, refreshed the levain twice, seems the cooler weather has kind of put it to sleep!
Will make Spelt baguettes and another attempt at the French country loaf from Thom Leonard!

Ta!

TP

Exclamation

Very good!
2 min less in oven, crust is a little, little too dark, but only a little.
Why, wheat germ, use malt instaead, enzymatic active.

Just now I startet spelt levain, poolish will follow later..

Very Happy

recipe is similar to Luc Boulet's, a frech boulanger teacher.
The only difference is using 630 spalt insteadf of 550 wheat, but it contains 1150 rye, this is what I have at home

Very Happy

It's not original, Luc has accommodated his recipe to germen flour sorts.

Shucks

Embarassed

Embarassed

tks for the kind words, Dom and Jeremy. I only hope that what I bake tastes as good as they look, and not look better than they taste.

Jeremy, I used this formula from you:

[quote]
levain 96g 35%
t65 148 49%
ap flour 148g 49%
wheat germ 3g 1%
water 173g 58%
salt 7g 2%
yeast 0%(if your levain is slow.5%)
[/quote]

I've to work at improving the spring and getting them huge holes next. This bake-off is giving me loads of slashing practice. Yeah!

Can't wait to see the father-n-son baguette and dom's crumb. Jeremy, you baked baguettes again, right?


[quote="Jeremy"]
Hey Maedi!
what about Dad?
[/quote]

Jeremy
Dad and I have decided to make one togethor.

That a way!

Let the action begin!

Ta!

PS I am not sure which I find more drool-worthy TP - your fantastic baguettes, or your gorgeous photos. great work.


Dom!
She does have a good eye, and hell her baking makes me lick my screen, when nobody is looking!

Jeremy