Shape of Loaf

ChuckB

I baked my first sourdoughs this weekend and for taste the breads were great. My question is how do I maintain the shape of the loaf after proofing? For my first loaf, as soon as I remove the dough from my basket an put onto a baking stone, the dough spread out and though it did rise, was basically flat. My second loaf, baked this time on a baking sheet, did rise more in the oven, but the dough still sreadout. My third and final for the weekend did the same. As soon as I remove the dough from the basket it loses it shape. HELP!

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TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 August 14

What's the hydration? High hydration loaves (70% and above) tend to do that. You can try putting less water the next time, or bake in a tin.

Oh...and welcome to the Club!

Bill44's picture
Bill44 2006 August 14

A few details on your recipe and proofing time will help. You've either got a high hydration dough like TP said or you may have overproofed your dough which, depending on how far overproofed it is, will make it almost liquid and want to spread without much rise.
Overproofing is a very common mistake with new bakers, and sometimes old bakers too.

ChuckB 2006 August 14

The recipe hydration (calculated) would be 77% As this was the recipe, I didn't worry to much. The pics of the finished loaf, from the recipe, were considerably higher than mine.

Bill44's picture
Bill44 2006 August 14

That is quite high in hydration, and I would expect it to spread.
As you can see from the following pic of a 75% hydration dough, you do get a spread from higher hydration

[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4535-1/new_Pugliese+003.jpg[/img]

ChuckB 2006 August 14

"Overproofing" is another thought. I did the slash and "see the bubbles" step and then would fold and stretch and return to the bowl. After 3 attempts, I then placed the dough in the basket.
[b]BILL44[/b] The recipe was a beginners recipe from the forum.

SourDom 2006 August 14

Chuck,

have a look at this thread for some suggestions
[url]http://www.sourdough.com.au/forum//viewtopic.php?t=214[/url]

cheers
Dom

ChuckB 2006 August 14

[b]TP[/b] - I'll track down the recipe and post it. By the way, you mention baking in a tin. I have several bread tins, but as I was going for the "authentic" sourdough loaf, decided to forego the tin. Is there a recipe or baking time adjustment when using a tin?
[b]SourDom[/b] - Thanks for the link. I have read/used similar instructions. Is there a rule of thumb regarding how often you do the shaping sequence and then the proving?

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 August 14

Hmm...I don't make any adjustments when I bake in a tin. Nevertheless, [url=http://www.sourdough.com.au/forum//viewtopic.php?t=168]note chembake's comments[/url] and make sure the tin is well-oiled.

ChuckB 2006 August 14

[b]TP[/b] - definately looks like a real winner! Could you use Wholemeal or Spelt flour at the same measures?

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 August 14

No problem. Play around with all combinations. Keep a notebook. For starters, you may want to use 50:50 wholemeal/plain and work from there, bearing in mind wholemeal needs a shorter proofing time and less handling.

carla's picture
carla 2006 August 14

[quote="ChuckB"]
...as I was going for the "authentic" sourdough loaf, decided to forego the tin.
[/quote]

All wholemeal rye sourdough breads are baked in tins,
most of the 80%rye-20%wheat-mixed sourdough breads are baked in tins
and only pure wheat or wheat with minimal rye are baked free in the oven.

So there is no such thing as a "authentic shape" to sourdough baking in general! Really depends what you are baking!

I personally prefer to bake the high hydration breads in a tin, whatever grain they use, as I get a much nicer crumb that way.

But that is personal preference and I am told some ovens are not hot enough to get a decent crust in a tin. While I have no problems with that, I also use the oldfashioned black tins which are just tin and nothing else.

Good luck with your breadbaking ChuckB!
We will appreciate more pictures from your next bake

Bill44's picture
Bill44 2006 August 14

[quote="carla"]
and only pure wheat or wheat with minimal rye are baked free in the oven.
[/quote]

Carla, what do you consider to be "minimal rye". I bake my 33% rye loaves without a tin.

bianchifan's picture
bianchifan 2006 August 15

[quote="carla"]
only pure wheat or wheat with minimal rye are baked free
[/quote]
carla, my dear,what are you telling?
Look here at Pöt, [url=http://www.der-sauerteig.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=10059]this bread has wheat content < 20%[/url],
no form, no basket, but permenently brushed with water.
Just made from a kiddy startet sourdough...

SourDom 2006 August 15

Chuck,

If I can I usually fold the dough every hour during bulk fermentation, slashing the surface of the dough to see whether it is ready to shape

Folding the dough also tends to improve its resilience, and make it less likely to flatten on being transferred

cheers
Dom

ChuckB 2006 August 15

[b]TP[/b] - Another baking experience this weekend. I want to try a Spelt & Wholemeal Pain de Mie, and will bake in a tin. I'll keep records and if my ego allows will post pics.
[b]Carla[/b] - the "shape" I was looking for was more like a Pan de Casa and a Miche. I'll try the bread tin this weekend.
[b]Bill44[/b] - basing my breads on your pics, my rise was about 1/2 to 3/4 of yours. My crumb on the bottom was more compressed. Overproofed?
[b]SourDom[/b] - How long do you allow for the bulk fermentation, if you are folding every hour?

Bill44's picture
Bill44 2006 August 15

ChuckB, compressed crumb on the bottom is a telltale sign of overproofing. The gas walls are weakened to the point where they can't support the weight of the loaf. Better luck next time mate.

carla's picture
carla 2006 August 15

[quote="Bill44"]
Carla, what do you consider to be "minimal rye". I bake my 33% rye loaves without a tin.
[/quote]

Should have offered that I bake with freshly milled grains. So a bread with 30-50% wholemeal rye [b]I[/b] cannot bake without a tin.
Well I can - but then it is too dry for my taste. Or if the crumb is as I like it it is too flat for my taste.
I am sure there are people out there who can do it.
Just saying that "most" would be baked in a tin.
Maybe my post was a bit too short

carla's picture
carla 2006 August 15

[quote="bianchifan"]
carla, my dear,what are you telling?
Look here at Pöt, [url=http://www.der-sauerteig.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=10059]this bread has wheat content < 20%[/url],
no form, no basket, but permenently brushed with water.
Just made from a kiddy startet sourdough...
[/quote]

And just [b]NOT[/b] my type of bread bianchifan - sorry to say.
Too dense for me I am afraid.

You must be the only one baking such a bread without a tin. Good on you

SourDom 2006 August 16

Chuck

have a look at this [url=http://sourdom.sourdough.net.au/2006/07/08/beginners-blog-proving/]tutorial on proving[/url]

cheers
Dom

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