After a couple of years baking with commercial yeast, I have now entered the extraordinary sour dough world/ And, this website is great! Such a useful source of advice, inspiration and everyone seems very freindly and supportive.
Anyway, I have baked a few laoves reasonably successfully, honing my approach with advice form this forum.
My loaves taste good and have a nice airy crumb, but are a bit of a formless bloop and I wish they looked all pert and compact like the images on this site.
I currently use a 100% hydration, with a couple of 8 hour feeds before I bake. I then follow the 1 - 2 - 3 method - It has been very chilly here in London in my unheated house, so today's loaves proved overnight in the kitchen (maybe about erm, 15 degrees centigrade). I then put them on top of the oven while it heated up for another 45 mins or so.
I have been proving in a lined basket, and all goes well until it is time to turn out and bake and then the dough is so soft it gloops out. It is the too floppy to slash, and does boof up in the over and is good to eat - but not such a delight to the eye.
I'll be grateful for any advice!
isobel
Replies
Hi isobel,
Show us some photos, please! And your formula for the breads you described.
Occa
Hi Isobel,
I think the level of hydration is your basic problem. 100% is probably what one would use for a very wet dough like Ciabatta, but if you check out other formulations here you will see that most would be well less than that. I produce numerous sourdough varieties commercially and the average % used would be around 72 or 73, and even then some of those doughs are slightly hard to handle, but if they are scaled and rounded tightly and given a bench rest for approx half an hour, the final shaping before proving is easier as a slight skin will form, which if you keep on the outside in your final shape, makes handling easier. I'm happy to elaborate on this if it is not clear.
Cheers...and good luck.
Ted
Hi Isobel
Are you using a rye or a wheat (or a spelt) sour dough and what are you using for the additional flour? They are all a bit different. I find rye stands up extremely well even when really sticky but that spelt and wheat require more flour to stand up well. Try adding a more flour into your dough so that it is, ultimately a sticky ball when kneaded as opposed to a sticky mass. When shaping, you may want to try wetting your hands and to gather up the dough and then rolling it generously in flour or rolled oats or seeds before popping it into the proofing basket.
Good luck!
Hi Ted
really helpful and encouraging advice! Thanks so much. I will adjust hydration as you suggest - as, yes, my dough is more like a ciabatta consistency at the moment.
It means I will have to get better scales and throw away the old cronky ones that were OK for yeast baking ...!
With many thanks
isobel
Hi gingerbreadgirl (great name, by the way)
Thanks very much for your helpful advice!
I am using all wheat flour at the moment. Once I get used to the whole business, I will graduate to other flours and improvisations. I did this with yeast baking as I soon could judge by look and feel whether the consistency was right, and how much it would vary depending on the bag of flour used.
But, I will now try adjusting my proportions and adding more flour and following Ted's advice for less hydrated leaven.
Thanks very much for your encouragement.
isobel
Hi Isobel,
FWIW ...
I'm not a professional baker nor I must add a baking enthusiast for whom not only methods, but also style matter. I am on the other hand a health enthusiast and that is what brought me to sourdough bread.
I do like working with slack dough sometimes, but was thoroughly put off by the result that was most of the times all crust, barely crumb due to the flattening of the dough on baking. So I've came up with an idea that allows me to dish out sourdough bread that tastes good, has a crust/crumb proportion that we like at our house, even though once in a while the baked loaves are not very professional looking.
I've posted information on that [url=http://mellowbakers.com/index.php?topic=189.msg794#msg794]here[/url].
Hi Isobel,
I see your note to gingerbreadgirl where you refer to my suggestion of less hydrated leavens. I'm sorry if I mislead you. When you first spoke of 100% hydration I assumed you were talking about the finished dough and accordingly my comments were aimed at that. I too use leavens of equal water to flour but when added to the dough ( I use leavens at the rate of 20% of flour weight) I drop the hydration of the dough to 72 or 73 %. So I thought I had better write once more to clarify this and hope I haven't confused you too much.
All the best in what you do.
Ted
Hi Isobel,
Agree with Ted that it is not the hydration that will be the problem: 100% hydration starter is normal and the 1-2-3 method gives you a final dough hydration of 71% which is good. Rather, sounds to me like a very long time to be proofing the loaves. Try instead leaving the bulk fermentation go overnight, then only and hour or two after shaping the loaves. I use the tea towel method instead of proofing baskets, as per the suggestion in SourDom's Beginners Blog on this site. When the loaf is in danger of going too far, it is easier to tell by the size and the splodge (as well as the poke test). The tea towel doesn't give much or any support, but it is the stretch and folds during bulk fermentation and shaping that I understand should be making the dough hold itself up.
And by the way, I think the chilly house is all to the good for your bread -- a longer fermentation translates to more flavour -- so make bread while the sun don't shine, so to speak.
Cheers,
Frank
Hi Frank and Ted
thanks for your enhanced advice!
My mind was a whirl with percentages, but now I think I am clear.
100% for the stater is OK
1-2-3 method (1x starter; 2xwater; 3xflour) is godd as is about 71%
BUT cut back on proofing after the dough has been shaped. And, if this freezing weather in London contnues - so much the better!
I will give it a go and keep my fingers crossed.
Many thanks and happy baking
Isobel